Construction Grade Lumber for Furniture?

[Mark Bolton]

I still don't see how this affects how you choose to work. If you want quality "Tools, lumber, appliances, electrical fixtures" it's out there for a premium price. That's still available for people like you. Have you ever considered that affordability might improve people's lives as well? Paying for quality isn't always appropriate nor an option for everyone. You said yourself you have some luxury in those choices but many don't. I guess my point is, it's not black and white. It's not all greed or laziness. Times change...

Charles,
As I mentioned in my post this unfortunately isnt the case any longer. Many (I would almost say most) manufacturers years ago did in fact offer lower grade lines right along side their higher quality lines. You had a choice. Now however, for the reasons I mentioned, most manufacturers are simply unable or unwilling to make two lines and the one that sells the most is the winner and that is always the cheapest. And I mean that with regards to both cost and quality.

In many locations buying at a non borg doesnt get you anything different with regards to the materials. They often come from the same distribution. Fasteners are a prime example as are sundry items. What you do get is service and some mutual loyalty as well as a few better products.

Point being, and its water under the bridge now because were too far down the river to paddle back, this business model which has infected the consumers rationality like a cancer has driven the mean average of quality into the sewer. People simply dont even know what quality is because its been so long they either have forgotten or are too young to have ever experienced it.

The facts are simple. When would you even think of a time when it was acceptable for lighting fixtures to only last a few years without rusting and pitting causing you to buy several in your life as opposed to one? When would you imagine that when a faucet starts dripping you change the whole faucet rather than put seats and washers because its just as "cheap" (hah both meanings). Your walls require more frequent painting because homecenter paints are "cheaper". On and on.

Of course we now have more frequent changes in decor and upgrading and so on all of which drives the economy. And you get what you pay for. But the poison is in the mentality behind it all. Greed.

[Mike Olson]

I try to buy 2x12s that have the pith right in the center. This will yield furniture parts up to 6" wide that are perfectly quarter sawn. I usually will break down the 2x12 as soon as possible and sticker the parts for a couple weeks while checking the MC. In my experience. If I stick to the method I mentioned above I don't get much movement. I'm building a queen size bed that will be painted from Doug fir at the moment. You will get quite a bit of waste but at ~$1/ board foot who cares.

That is a fantastic idea. next time i'm at a big box store i'm going to check those out.

[Curt Harms]

................
Of course we now have more frequent changes in decor and upgrading and so on all of which drives the economy. And you get what you pay for. But the poison is in the mentality behind it all. Greed.

I suspect the "why pay more for something that will last for 25+ years when I'm going to replace it in 10" mentality enters into it. "Why pay more for something that will be obsolete long before it wears out?" I realize this reasoning may not apply to building products as it does to consumer goods e.g. electronics but I wonder if the attitude carries over. I guess it depends on the customer base but if you have two builders offering similar 2000 sq. ft. homes but one is $10,000 cheaper than the guy using higher quality plumbing & electrical fixtures etc., I suspect the guy offering the cheaper house is gonna sell more. I doubt many buyers can tell the difference or care much, at least until they have to start replacing stuff.

[John Piwaron]

much of our best timber goes to japan.

Can you cite a source for that remark? I'm not doubting you, I'd just like to read about that.

[Aaron Berk]

Something from some 2x6's and a few 2x10's

Needed another bed, and needed it in a hurry......
DSCF5033.jpg

[jack forsberg]

Can you cite a source for that remark? I'm not doubting you, I'd just like to read about that.

this does not show grade.
http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/forests/canad...dicators/13245

more here about what i am talking about
http://www.international.gc.ca/media....aspx?lang=eng

[Frederick Skelly]

I have a pretty little end table right next to me now whose base (legs + stretchers) are made from 2x4's I bought at a Big Box store. Select your boards carefully, try to pick those which are straight (unwarped) and "close" to quartersawn. Lay it out so that you cut your parts out of the nicest part of the board - not just at one side or the other.

Maybe I got lucky, but Ive done this several times without issue. The grain is pretty. The legs have no knots because I cut around them. The wood worked easily. And I have a whopping $7.50 in materials.

Aide: I always cull the boards I want, going through the whole pile if I need to. Im only a hobbyist and honestly didnt know I wasnt supposed to (or that I wasnt allowed to). But some of the points made in this thread might better explain the lumber desk's irritation with me than my previous impression that they thought I was making a mess. I need to consider that some more.

Anyway, Id encourage you to try it. Wont cost you much ($10?) and it might suit you too.

Take care.
Fred

[John Piwaron]

Select your boards carefully, try to pick those which are straight (unwarped) and "close" to quartersawn.

Aide: I always cull the boards I want, going through the whole pile if I need to. I'm only a hobbyist and honestly didn't know I wasn't supposed to (or that I wasnt allowed to). But some of the points made in this thread might better explain the lumber desk's irritation with me than my previous impression that they thought I was making a mess. I need to consider that some more.

Was there another "higher grade" stack available to chose your stock from? If not, then I don't see a problem. If there was, choose from that and avoid the ire of the people running the store and address the concerns of the above posters. Problem solved.

When I go to Home Depot for 2x4s or 2x6s, I too look for the straight ones. BUT I don't look through the entire pile. I'll look at what happens to be laying on the top level or two. And choose from those. What I'm doing is avoiding the worst of it - boards that look like curly fries, wicked bowing, huge knots, or, worst of all, big splits. I'm different, maybe, that I'm also willing to work the 2x material with my jointer and planer and glue up if I have to to get the part I need. I'd rather not have to, but I'll do what I have to do. This is treating the construction material not unlike what happens at the hardwood store. I choose material there in the exact same manner. Some boards just aren't suitable for my project.

In fact, I did that recently for a fairly good size project. I built a set of outdoor planters using 2x Cedar boards. To suit my design I had to glue up *all* the parts from 2x material to get the dimensional parts I wanted. Plus, I didn't buy enough to make it easy. I used all of the cut offs to make parts too. That was a lot of more gluing up to bring them to the sizes I needed. In the end, there was almost no waste. But a considerable amount of glue up. That definitely made it a bit on the time consuming side. Today those planters are completed, painted and outside filled with soil and flowers.

[Art Mann]

[Qo
UQUOTE=Art Mann;2274498]I suppose all those people who object to culling lumber also occasionally buy rotten produce at the grocery stored all in the name of fairness. Where I live, the good builders don't tolerate shoddy material from big box stores or lumber yards.

False analogy. Produce at the grocery store is arranged and displayed in a manner to allow for picking. A better analogy would be picking through the pre packed bags of fruit and making a bag of all the perfect ones.
l[/QUOTE]

The big box stores I visit have lumber displays that are perfectly analogous to vegetable displays at grocery stores. The lumber is anything but "prepackaged". The two places I usually shop, Lowes and Home Depot, often have a guy standing there to help you sort through the pile. If the procedure were not acceptable to the seller, then such people would not be on the payroll. I buy premium lumber at a lumber yard and I don't have to sort through a pile because it is all exactly what I am expecting with few exceptions. If it weren't, I would shop elsewhere. Such quality and service comes at a price.

[Charles Li]

To the people who've posted the fine pics of furniture,
I never defined construction grade or rather I made the assumption that construction grade = 2x's of pine basically. Some pics look like some ply or maybe pine boards as well? I don't really know which is why I'm asking. What's the general definition of construction grade and are any of those pics dressed up with bits of furniture grade wood?

[Art Mann]

My definition of "furniture grade" lumber includes only high quality hardwoods like cherry and walnut with a very few exceptions. By my definition, none of the photos in this thread appear to be using any furniture grade wood. I must say, though, that I am not a wood snob. I have seen a lot of nice furniture and cabinets built with cheaper woods like pine and fir. There are some situations where it seems to me to be the most appropriate choice.

[Brian Holcombe]

The borg has it's place, hard to find a local guy open on sunday evening when your toilet starts running and you need replacement parts in a hurry. However when it comes to building materials I first chose my local suppliers since they are carrying 1st rate quality and that matters to me. I do not want 5 ply or mdf core hardwood plywood or wet lumber. In fact, I find the local guys rarely more expensive when you are comparing on a relative basis. They are often considered to be more expensive because most refuse to carry low quality and compete for the bottom of the market. My local places are very reasonable and amicable, especially after you have established yourself as a repeat customer.

They also have something that no BORG carries with any reliability; Good advice when you need it.

Artist, builder, or furniture maker should appreciate that continuation of craft requires support well above what is available at the low end of the market, and should also be willing to extend that same support to their tool and material suppliers when possible.

[joseph f merz]

If your project can stand nail holes I would sujest running the dumpsters of remodel projects .lumber is dry .any twisting cracking and bowing has mostly been done and you have a good idea of what the boards will do . As a builder I always save the redwood from the dumpster .Works so nicely ,beautiful moldings . Also built a bunch of doors from some fir lumber that was left over from a barn .It was ungraded ,rough ,but dry . Also at my yard there is a product they sell as fence boards .Also rough and an odd dimension .I bought some and have in a shed drying out .if left outside it twist bad .Cassed some doors in it -gorgeous . Also built a bedframe with these fence boards .Here in calif where I am at they have recycle yards and you can buy used lumber . Love that stuff .

[johnny means]

They're is no standard for furniture grade, but there are standard by which lumber is graded. I assume when we mention construction grade here we're talking about 2x, 4x, and 1x material intended to be used as framing, joists, sleepers,etc. Basically, all the wood you don't see when the house is finished. The 1x material sold next to the shelving and trim wouldn't be in this same category. All species are available in higher grades for use in furniture and cabinet making. I can go to my local yard and buy SYP that is free of knots and defects, kiln dried, and QS. I would call this furniture grade. It is also several times more expensive than the material at the borg.

[Randy Rizzo]

To the people who've posted the fine pics of furniture,
I never defined construction grade or rather I made the assumption that construction grade = 2x's of pine basically. Some pics look like some ply or maybe pine boards as well? I don't really know which is why I'm asking. What's the general definition of construction grade and are any of those pics dressed up with bits of furniture grade wood?

Charles, the attached photos, projects were all made with 1X8's usually, ripped to width. Side panels for finish pieces usually cabinet grade 3/4" pine ply. THe tops, 2X Doug Fir planed to 1" and edge glued. The unfinished pieces (sanding sealer only) are in my storeroom and were the "test bed" to check construction methods. The walk-in closet, bookcase pieces have been done the same way. Both are close to 10 years old now.