Ripping and cross-cutting blades

[Curt Walker]

My shop has always been a mixture of inherited tools and those I've bought for myself. My saw blades were all passed down and I wouldn't call any of them specialty or high quality blades. For an upcoming project I'd like to get some blades that reduce or prevent tear-out when crosscutting plywood and solid rough-sawn lumber.

Some blades I'm considering are listed below. For me, these are "nice" blades. Freud's Industrial versions aren't in my price range so I'm opting for their Diablo counterparts. I have a couple of questions about them. Generally I want to confirm what I think I understand about them.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Diablo-10...024X/100070768

I understand this blade is specifically designed to rip solid wood with the grain. I will be dimensioning a good bit of solid wood for the project, but I will also be cutting a lot of plywood. My first question is, would I be better of using a different blade when ripping and crosscutting plywood? Here are two blades I believe are better suited to ripping and crosscutting plywood:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Diablo-10...2jqZgeZ1z13kju
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Diablo-10...2jqZgeZ1z13kju

I'm not clear on the main difference between the two.

Second question is, would either of the two 60-tooth blades linked above also perform well for crosscutting solid wood?

Thanks for your help.

[Chris Padilla]

Generally speaking, you want a low tooth count blade to rip solid wood and high tooth count blades to rip and crosscut plywood. You also want a high tooth count blade to crosscut solid wood (like on a miter box).

After that, the other details come in like the shape of the tooth and the angle of the tooth. Blades may even have different tooth cuts within the same blade. In a ripping blade for solid wood, the tooth count is low and the shape of the tooth is flat across the top and the teeth are all the same. In a fine finish high tooth count blade meant for plywood, the teeth are often trapezoid shaped and alternate from left to right and may even have a flat top tooth between the two left/right teeth. IMO, really good plywood blades are worth their money. You want something in the 80 tooth area...60 might be okay but you may need to take additional steps to prevent crosscut tear out (pre-scoring with a knife, adding tape along the cut line, etc.). General all around blades good for most everything (but not super duper at it) will be in the 40-50 tooth count range. Sharpened well, these blades can do great work.

Pick up those blades and try them out. You might try to splurge on a better blade or borrow one so you can appreciate the differences. Fill in your location...maybe there is a Creeker nearby who can show you the ropes or let you try a more expensive blade.

[Peter Quinn]

The ripping blade is fine for solid lumber ripping, diablo is a good value. Spend your money on a plywood blade, sorry but IME you get what you pay for there. Of the two blades you listed neither is a plywood blade, the second looks like it is specifically for miter saws (negative hook angle on teeth), the other may not be optimized for the table saw, so it would probably work, how well is unclear. You may find a diablo blade for plywood that is also a good value. I like a melamine blade for the table saw, works great on veneer core plywood, 80 teeth, tripple chip grind, height ATB is how they are listed, expect to pay $75-90, expect it to last most of the rest of your life. Forty thousand lineal feet possibly per sharpening, 10-11 sharpenings per blade, good value. Cabinet grade plywood, even cheap Borg stuff, starts around $50/sheet, so the blade is not a real cost factor. Saving $20 here could cost you thousands over a life time in chipped plywood.

A zero clearance insert will will go a long way towards controlling chipping on the bottom face when ripping plywood, another trick on critical pieces is to score it with a first pass blade up just shy of 1/8", the raise the blade and go full depth.

[Peter Quinn]

Here is the type of blade I'm recommending for plywood.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0007W...&robot_redir=1

[Mike Cutler]

Curt
I have a number of different blades by various manufacturers. I have CMT's, Forrest's, Festool, Amana and Freud's.
I personally like the Freud's. They represent a good value for the dollar and for a hobbiest, they are more than adequate. They may not last as long as more expensive blades, and the cut performance versus a blade 3-4 times the cost is acceptable depending on the project. The most important being the Ply blade in my opinion. I have Ply blades that are used only on pre-finished ply, and keep others for different plywood. read as not nearly as expensive.
I have the Freud D1080 for plywood and it's good. A brand new one gives more than acceptable performance when used with a ZCI.
That 24 tooth blade is a nice one for ripping. Take care of it and it will give you many projects worth of performance.
I have blades that cost many times the price of those Freud's at Home Depot, but I still don't hesitate to buy them, and use them.

[Curt Walker]

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

Peter, that blade you linked is one of the ones I found before learning about the more affordable Diablo line. I may do as you suggest and spring for the Industrial version, at least for the plywood blade I buy.

Mike, thanks for the recommendations. Do you happen to know what the lifespan is of the sharpness on a brand new Diablo blade vs the Industrial version? It's probably more than enough for me either way. After pondering it a bit more I'm becoming more interested in the Industrial version of these blades. The cost is about 2x over the Diablo, but I get the impression it would just about last my entire lifetime worth of projects without needing sharpening. I build one or two projects per year.

[Peter Quinn]

I have the Freud Diablo ultra finish in an 8" version on my portable TS, it cuts pretty well, similar to the plywood/melamine blade, I'd call it pretty close. For the home shop it would be a decent option for plywood, but for the $30 difference I'd probably go for the industrial series blade. Well not probably, I did. You get thicker carbide on the industrial than the diablos. I like the very thin kerf on the job site saw, the home shop is a 5HP cabinet saw so no real need for thin kerf there, your situation may differ. So you wouldn't suffer with the diablo blade but its not quite the same as the industrial. I never really compared the cuts side by side.

I don't know why, but many contractors see blades as cheap disposable things like skill saw framing blades. Some see router bits the same way, like sawzall blades, and they treat them that way. So Freud markets and engineers the diablos to that audience. Valued engineered. Not bad, but not premium goods either. Cabinet makers see tooling as a long term investment by and large (there are always many exceptions to these generalizations). Think shaper cutters......do you ever throw a pile of shaper cutters in the bottom of a tool bag and drag them around in the back of a trailer from job to job, use them, pull them off and huck them back in a bag loose? Cost too much to even consider it. I've seen too many contractors do that to their router bits not to notice. All that carbide just bouncing around in a canvas bag with other tools. Scary. I remember when my local building yard stopped selling amana......the close out deals were killer, but I asked why they divested of that brand, was told contractors didn't want to spend that much on bits. I did, but mine live in a rack in a dry safe shop, get used then returned directly, never come in contact with nails on purpose, never get tossed in a bucket in my trailer. Now they sell Freud's and Diablos, contractors are happier, I order most of my cutters on line!

[scott spencer]

... Do you happen to know what the lifespan is of the sharpness on a brand new Diablo blade vs the Industrial version? It's probably more than enough for me either way. After pondering it a bit more I'm becoming more interested in the Industrial version of these blades. The cost is about 2x over the Diablo, but I get the impression it would just about last my entire lifetime worth of projects without needing sharpening. I build one or two projects per year.

The Freud Industrial and Diablo blades are both made on the same machinery, from the same materials, to the same specs, so the the edge life should be pretty similar. The Diablo blades have less carbide, so won't take as many resharpenings. The 60T D1060X should do pretty well in plywood....not stellar, but really good. The D1080X will do better for a modest additional cost.

Cripe Distribution is offering a great closeout deal on an 80T Oldham Pro blade that's made in the US....$20+s/h. This blade is a considerable step up from the current Oldham line of foreign made blades carried by HD, et al.

I'd also give some consideration to the Irwin Marples line....excellent blades for the money. (not to be confused with the Irwin Marathon or Classic series. )

[Curt Walker]

Thanks guys. I really appreciate this discussion. I learned a lot.

[Mike Cutler]

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

Peter, that blade you linked is one of the ones I found before learning about the more affordable Diablo line. I may do as you suggest and spring for the Industrial version, at least for the plywood blade I buy.

Mike, thanks for the recommendations. Do you happen to know what the lifespan is of the sharpness on a brand new Diablo blade vs the Industrial version? It's probably more than enough for me either way. After pondering it a bit more I'm becoming more interested in the Industrial version of these blades. The cost is about 2x over the Diablo, but I get the impression it would just about last my entire lifetime worth of projects without needing sharpening. I build one or two projects per year.

Curt
Lifespan, unfortunately, is very variable. I like to use the more exotic "tropicals" personally, which are generally much denser than domestic hardwoods, and unfortunately have high mineral contents, so they tend to wear out blades faster than say oak, or maple, or cherry.
In my experience I have "generally" found that the tools used by the guys that make a living at woodworking will last the hobbiest many, many years if treated and used properly.
I can get away with buying a cheaper blade for my use only because I will never cut as much wood in 10 years as some guys on the forum will in a week, and time is not money for me.
Still though, you want to have quality tools, especially fast moving sharp ones, to work with because it makes a project easier and safer.

[mark kosse]

Curt, one more thing I'd like to add. I like the Freud blades a lot but they have one more quality not mentioned. In a garage environment the coating on the blade stops rust better than a lot of other more expensive blades.

[Curt Walker]

Now I just need to make up my mind between these two plywood/melamine blades, Diablo and Industrial respectively....

Industrial - $80 - http://www.amazon.com/Freud-LU80R010...RYCME9PDTN5E72
Diablo - $48 - http://www.amazon.com/D1080X-Diablo-...inch+saw+blade

If I'm not getting anything other than more sharpenings out of the Industrial then maybe I'll opt for the Diablo. That being said, for some reason the blade that has "ULTIMATE PLYWOOD & MELAMINE" written on it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.

[Curt Walker]

Last question, which Freud blade(s) would you recommend for the cleanest crosscuts of solid wood? 40T or 60T?