Getting that dark brown Mahogany.

[Matt Mackinnon]

Living up in Canada, going the old route of Potassium DiChromate is not really an option as i don't have access to any and bringing it in without a license can be trouble.

So I am stuck with going with a stain of some sort. In the past I have run into issues where there has been a spot or two where glue got into the wood and blocks the gel stain from working. In other cases, I have had streaks where I can only assume some other contamination has taken.

I have never tried staining with Aniline water stains on a project like this. I have an Earlex 5000 HVLP that I can spray it on with. I know that I will need to pre-spray the whole bed to raise the grain and sand before staining.

Are there other solutions to this problem that I have not considered? My access to products are pretty limited to Lee Valley and local bigbox stores.

thanks

Matt.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I would use dye. Since you can spray, best option may be alcohol and dye- Transfast powder is a good base. Alcohol reduction is more difficult fro wipe=on, which is why I use water.

On the glue spots - only paint will hide that, AFAIK. Dye, stain, etc, ain't gonna hide it.

That was a big problem for me in the early days. Tried every solution I could think of - LN chisel plane was one. UV additive to glue and a black light was another, so I could find it and chisel it out. But - at the end of the day - I was treating the symptom, not the disease.

In the end the answer was simply to get better and keep glue off the unfiinished wood.

I almost universally get most of the way through the finish schedule BEFORE glue-up. Dye, shellac sealer, most of the varnish coats on the components - then assemble. Glue won't stick to the varnish, plus the color is already down. Famous Blue Tape on all tenons before I start finishing the components.

If I had capability to spray, I would take a completely different approach. Sadly, not to be.

[Prashun Patel]

Search fww online if you have a subscription. There was a great article called Finishing Mahogany by Jeff jewitt that covers this topic well. He dyes with amber, then seals with brown tinted blo, then fills the pores with black rottenstone.

I wouldnt sweat the glue. Just sand more carefully.

also, if you add a glaze as a final darkening and antiquing step, you can usually mask any glue misses.

[John T Barker]

If you like the potassium dichromate google making your own. There are some ways to do it.

[ron david]

Living up in Canada, going the old route of Potassium DiChromate is not really an option as i don't have access to any and bringing it in without a license can be trouble.

So I am stuck with going with a stain of some sort. In the past I have run into issues where there has been a spot or two where glue got into the wood and blocks the gel stain from working. In other cases, I have had streaks where I can only assume some other contamination has taken.

I have never tried staining with Aniline water stains on a project like this. I have an Earlex 5000 HVLP that I can spray it on with. I know that I will need to pre-spray the whole bed to raise the grain and sand before staining.

Are there other solutions to this problem that I have not considered? My access to products are pretty limited to Lee Valley and local bigbox stores.

thanks

Matt.

It is not that difficult to get. wherever the do soil and water testing, they use it. they just usually give me some when I need it.
ron

[Jim Rimmer]

I would use dye. Since you can spray, best option may be alcohol and dye- Transfast powder is a good base. Alcohol reduction is more difficult fro wipe=on, which is why I use water.

On the glue spots - only paint will hide that, AFAIK. Dye, stain, etc, ain't gonna hide it.

That was a big problem for me in the early days. Tried every solution I could think of - LN chisel plane was one. UV additive to glue and a black light was another, so I could find it and chisel it out. But - at the end of the day - I was treating the symptom, not the disease.

In the end the answer was simply to get better and keep glue off the unfiinished wood.

I almost universally get most of the way through the finish schedule BEFORE glue-up. Dye, shellac sealer, most of the varnish coats on the components - then assemble. Glue won't stick to the varnish, plus the color is already down. Famous Blue Tape on all tenons before I start finishing the components.

If I had capability to spray, I would take a completely different approach. Sadly, not to be.

I agree - pre-finish, tape well, keep the glue off rather than try to get it off.

[John TenEyck]

How dark do you want? I matched the color on the top of this dresser to the rest of it with Transtint Brown Mahogany in SealCoat shellac, spraying it on as a toner.

20140709_142927.jpg

I sprayed 3 or 4 coats, followed by 3 coats of finish. I intentionally left the pores unfilled, but easily could have filled them before applying the toner coats.

The benefit of using toners is you can get any color you want by your choice of dye and the number of coats you apply. Also, the color is completely transparent. You can follow up with a glaze or gel stain to adjust the color/depth/transparency, as discussed by Jeff Jewitt on his website.

John

[Rick Mosher]

I did all the experimentation with chemical stains, mordants etc. In the end I really couldn't tell that much difference from a dye stain in most cases. I would recommend a water based dye stain that can be shipped just about anywhere. I like WD Lockwood or Arti. Mahogany has open pores and with dark colors the pores can show up lighter which is why most people use a pore filler tinted dark. My favorite mahogany finish is a mix of Lockwood #57 Chippendale red brown mahogany followed with a wash coat of sealer and then A wiping stain of gilsonite mixed in mineral spirits. Sherwin Williams has gilsomite in their S64 N44 product or if you don't want to spend a lot non fibrated roof asphalt will work. This will color the pores and unlike pigments gilsonite is very transparent. The only toning I would ever do is to even out sap wood or unevenly colored boards. If you get your entire color with toning any chips will remove the color and even dye stain looks muddy to me if applied heavily as it tends to mute the highlights of the wood.

[Kent A Bathurst]

............and then A wiping stain of gilsonite ......... This will color the pores and unlike pigments gilsonite is very transparent.

^^^^^ This.

I also use a diluted dark walnut wiping stain to get the same thing done. With the shellac sealer coat, the MS reduced stain has no effect on the dye color - you are just adding a pore filler at that point.

[Matt Mackinnon]

Currently I have started filling the pores of the wood with a dark paste pour filler that I got from WoodEssence here in Canada. I had used it with good success with a restoration of a walnut bed for my daughter. Easy to apply and sand back to just leave the pours filled and then I can sand it down to 320grit.

I have experimented with using some aniline die with some scraps of wood. It does get the right colour that I am looking for but the fact that I am putting water back onto the wood seems to raise the grain no matter what I do, and then if I sand it back down to get the smoothness that I want, then I end up removing some of the colour in spots. This gives a very uneven finish.

I have ordered an oil based wiping die from LV (when they get around to shipping it) and my thoughts were that I can mix it in with the walnut oil finish and build up the colour if I find it too light. I guess time will tell when I get the stain combo on to see if there are any spots that don't take the colour additive too well. You can only sand so much. In adding the pour filler, I have notices a few spots that weren't the right consistency and have sanded them a bit more as it looks like they were not going to absorb right.

I guess as well, the design dictates the ability to pre-fit pre-finish the work. In my case, the bed does have several over lap glue joints where finishing to a line would be rather difficult.

[John TenEyck]

Transtint dyes are soluble in water and alcohol. I often use it in alcohol to avoid grain raising issues. It's best to spray it on to avoid lap marks. Or you can pre raise the grain by wiping your piece with water after your last sanding step with the pore filler. Wipe it with water, let dry really well, then take just one or two swipes with 320 grit sandpaper on a rubber or cork block to cut off the whiskers. Then when you apply your water based dye it shouldn't cause much of a problem.

John