Paul Sellers

[Matthew N. Masail]

I'm not trying to start a war here at all, I personally find his videos refreshing and fun, and I'd much rather watch that than watch another guy use 12 different special jigs and power tools to create a M&T joint. However, I have seen a lot of (sometimes random) negative comments about him lately some as bad as "I dislike anything Sellers", and I've been wondering why that is, is it that people dislike his altitude, do they feel the quality of his work suffers from his "don't get fancy about it" altitude and thus disagree with his preaching, or what? for those of you who do not like him I'd like to here why that is, and I'm asking this question in the most innocent way possible. for those who do like him, I'd like to hear from you too, but I'm specifically wondering what is it that creates such a negative altitude towards him. me? I've learn more from him woodworking wise than all other woodworking videos combined where most of them are "look what I made, but I can only do it with these special jigs and super tuned power-tools that only fit in a big expensive shop"

[Rob Matarazzo]

I like him. I've enjoyed his videos and don't have a bad word to say.

[Charles Bjorgen]

I am a non-paying member of his Woodworking Masterclass group. What that means is that I can view some of his special videos meant for the paying members. Yup, I feel a bit guilty about that but I doubt I could keep up with a regularly scheduled class. I think his approach is terrific and feel I have learned quite a bit about hand tool use from him. I don't subscribe to his convex bevel technique for sharpening but his recent videos on tuning the No.80 cabinet scraper and spoke shaves have brought those tools of mine back to usefulness. He's a good teacher and many of his videos are available free on YouTube. Frankly I don't recall that much negativity directed toward Sellers other than the convex bevel thing. Others simply don't, like me, want to pay for an online woodworking school. The same can probably be said about Rob Cosman's online school.

[Pat Barry]

I enjoy watching his on-line video's and find that he has a wealth of experience and knowledge and does a GREAT job of presenting it. I don't see why anyone would have a problem with him worth the time of day.

[Daniel Rode]

There are lots of people who earn a living teaching and/or writing about woodworking. You'll find fans and detractors of all of them. I'm information omnivorous. I try to gather as many perspectives as I can and then choose what works for me.

As for Paul specifically, I enjoy his style and I've picked up many things I can use. However, I could say the same for at least 20 other people.

[Brian Holcombe]

One can disagree with some of the particulars of a given method without hating the person. I like Paul Sellers' videos and appreciate his contribution.

He has a way of explaining even the minute considerations of what he is doing, while he is doing it, and that is something invaluable when you are working through the trials and tribulations of a new process.

[Jim Matthews]

I find his method practical, and easy to apply.

As you suggest, it allows a maker to get on with the business at hand -
building furniture. No need for an extensive tool kit to make simple things.

What is often lost in translation is that Mr. Sellers will use more involved
equipment - as needed. Most of the heavy equipment in the New Legacy school
is dedicated to milling lumber, and that's an important aspect.

Having done all the necessary steps in taking a rough board
through resawing, trying, smoothing and finishing, jointing and
fitting I can honestly say some things are better done with machines.

The point of his instruction is that you can do all the things machines do,
but not so quickly or so easily.

I would say that Mr. Sellers is supremely competent, and that can come across as arrogant.

I found him anything but, in person.

[Tony Zaffuto]

My wife bought me his DVD series, along with the accompanying book several years ago as a present. Much of what was presented I was already familiar with, HOWEVER there was much new stuff and it was refreshing to watch someone actually the stuff I already knew. The price of the set was around $160 and was very much worth it. There are a few that are put off by him, but as another says there are always supporters and detractors. What I particularly like is that he is not a tool tester promoter, though he does have some opinions about his likes and dislikes.

I read his blog and several nights ago I was looking to see when he may have a class in the states, but it looks as if he has suspended teaching in the U.S. temporarily. If I ever have the chance to take one of his classes I will. I also bet that he is the kind of guy that is not the "my way or the highway".

[David Weaver]

I was one of the people who had an initial negative reaction, but I don't hate everything paul sellers or everything he does. I just think he's selling a gimmick ("lifestyle woodworking") and "don't spend money on tools but spend lots on classes". I just can't get into that kind of stuff, the sort of anti-modernity stuff that is specifically what affords average people the wealth to go spend money on his classes.

I like that he uses stock tools. I just wish he'd dump the gimmick stuff, like making a hag's tooth router out of a 2x4 and a chisel - anyone ever try to actually use a tool like that for reasonable quality work? And the whining about modern society and the implication that we should all hate precisely the things that make our lives a lot easier. It's part of the gimmick. Not saying he doesn't believe in what he's saying, nor am I saying people shouldn't pay to go to his classes or buy videos, etc, that's all a personal decision. He's certainly had blog posts I've agreed with, though I see them by chance because I don't read anyones' blogs.

What does get on my nerves is how it's always about the next guy who comes out (who has already been teaching students for 30 years), and how their new batch of fans sees something a little different (that they would've figured out in the shop, anyway - like not needing lie nielsen planes or expensive chisels to do good work) and all of the sudden whoever just released something new is the "real woodworker" and the rest of the other guys who make their living teaching students are not quite so real - but the group of all of them is much more the same than they are different. The whole time ignoring that the "real" types, the ones who have made a living precisely off of their work and not off of teaching students, are among us, and there are at least three on this board (two in the carving section and one here in hand tools) who do exceptional work and in quantity and of the likes that I've never seen any of the instructors do. There are a select few folks who still make a living or who made a living doing super fine work, and that's it. That's the kind of stuff you, me and everyone else are not going to figure out on our own.

Most of the stuff taught by the internet and class instructors can be learned on your own if you have the desire - and once you've learned it and gotten the sense to be connected enough to what you're doing to solve your own problems, you're done with the beginners stuff, and there's no reason to review the next guru of this or that. But, the real sense of taste, design, proportion, etc - that's where most of us really need help. I recall warren mentioning a while ago that by the time most apprentices had any technical competence, they already had a decent sense of design. We're missing that. And in the sometimes cases where the true masters are telling us stuff *for free* that people would've traveled to learn when the hobby was made of more serious folks only and fewer of them, we have a group of dogpilers who want to assail the messenger because they could care less about the information and only care that someone tells it to them and acts like we're all on the same level.

[Brian Holcombe]

For those, whose lifetime passion is woodworking, traveling, seeing many of it's facets and evolving a personal sense of design will all be part of that.

It it drives my wife crazy.

[David Weaver]

I just read his blog a little bit since this came up. Most of the stuff I'm pretty indifferent about just because it's in the rearview mirror by a long shot, but I will certainly say that in his post where he praises the virtues of the stanley bailey plane, and says that it hasn't been improved upon (supposing he means in the context of actual work, and not catalog contest numbers like iron hardness, cast iron ductility, flatness spec), I certainly agree 100%!!!

[Daniel Rode]

I really don't think most folks can learn hand tool woodworking on their own. I can't imagine learning even the basics of how to use a saw chisel and plane without the help of an experienced person, a book or some sort of class. I don't have any family or friends that do this, so I have to seek the knowledge from the Internet, books, magazines or DVDs. The information I get here at SMC is pretty amazing, but I can't expect folks here to teach me every step of the way. Also, the online classes are cheap and convenient, especially compared to live classes. For a few dollars a month I can watch several episodes and fit them in whenever I have time.

Most of the stuff taught by the internet and class instructors can be learned on your own if you have the desire...

[Jim Matthews]

I just can't get into that kind of stuff, the sort of anti-modernity stuff that is specifically what affords average people the wealth to go spend money on his classes.

I pointed out in the class that the Doctors, Lawyers and other professionals in attendance weren't looking for validation, they're the ones that could afford it.

The whole time ignoring that the "real" types, the ones who have made a living precisely off of their work and not off of teaching students, are among us, and there are at least three on this board (two in the carving section and one here in hand tools) who do exceptional work and in quantity and of the likes that I've never seen any of the instructors do. There are a select few folks who still make a living or who made a living doing super fine work, and that's it. That's the kind of stuff you, me and everyone else are not going to figure out on our own.

I've heard this from a couple of instructors, they teach to make ends meet. I know of three NBSS grads that are what I would consider gifted and they
lament the tour schedule required to keep the classes fully attended. It's a perverse incentive, and an odd field for competition.

What I did here in Mr. Sellers' class was an undercurrent of resentment that the most prominent, and frequently quoted articles on the subject of woodworking
are written by people that never made their living by building things for sale to clients. That clearly rankled.

But, the real sense of taste, design, proportion, etc - that's where most of us really need help. I recall warren mentioning a while ago that by the time most apprentices had any technical competence, they already had a decent sense of design.

This is the essential problem I have with all the "make this project" series. Few have lasting appeal, to me - particularly the derivative stuff.

I'm much more interested in things that people make without a template; walking the wire without a net.

The whole "live edge" thing escapes me, for example.

[David Weaver]

I pointed out in the class that the Doctors, Lawyers and other professionals in attendance weren't looking for validation, they're the ones that could afford it.

Most folks of that ilk tend to have certainty and confidence wrapped up already. And spouses who would not tolerate a change of lifestyle.

I've heard this from a couple of instructors, they teach to make ends meet. I know of three NBSS grads that are what I would consider gifted and they
lament the tour schedule required to keep the classes fully attended. It's a perverse incentive, and an odd field for competition.

I have heard excellent things about the short courses at NBSS.

What I did here in Mr. Sellers' class was an undercurrent of resentment that the most prominent, and frequently quoted articles on the subject of woodworking
are written by people that never made their living by building things for sale to clients. That clearly rankled.

Yeah, I agree there. And I really don't have such a problem with sellers as it may appear I do. I do someone admire the gimmickry and the heat drawing, but I *am* a fan of 1980s pro wrestling where that was part of the game. I always liked that kind of stuff, and it works - they had to get people in the seats. I also note that he *does* use his tools competently and in doing so, the work looks pedestrian and routine, as opposed to always looking like being on the edge of jamming a saw or overexertion as someone like schwartz does. Some people are just ungainly, but I haven't seen too many of the true pros do anything other than make things look pretty subtle. It's good to see people working like that, it gets you to realize what you should look like when you're doing good work - subtle and paced, but consistent. Such a thing is one of the bridges that narrows the divide between dimensioning with hand tools and power tools. The only thing left that i can think of where it really gasses me to do by hand is thickness planing something large when you have the misfortune of ending up with stock that's "tweener", too thick to use and too thin to resaw without a bandsaw.

This is the essential problem I have with all the "make this project" series. Few have lasting appeal, to me - particularly the derivative stuff.

I'm much more interested in things that people make without a template; walking the wire without a net.

The whole "live edge" thing escapes me, for example.

That's quite the problem with many things - no sense in building something you wouldn't actually want. The gateway drug to building interesting furniture is a combination of turning/carving/mouldings and aside from a few classes from folks who are making moulding planes (and thus need to show where you'd use them), there is little press of that. It is something best learned at the bench, but the design sense has to be learned, and the best way I can think of to get design critique is george or warren or mr barnett, etc. I know they own their answers when they provide them, which means they have a see-saw's worth of leverage to help me make adjustments.

[Jim Matthews]

When starting out, I took the introductory machine woodworking course at NBSS.

I hated it.

The endless set up, to fine degrees of precision for individual pieces seemed inefficient.
I spent more time dialing in cutterheads than cutting wood.

The approach seemed geared toward making multiple, uniform pieces - where I need cut only one.

Backwards, exactly to my thinking. But it was NBSS, so I tried to keep an open mind.
By the fourth day of ear splitting shop time, I knew this wasn't for me.

The last 5 days were liberating, as I spent less time in the shop and more time visiting the students upstairs.
The most interesting things were being done by hand. It was to be three years before I saw my first
Sellers video, illustrating a method that has proven easy to emulate.

While I understand that the NBSS method prepares students to build furniture for a living,
it's not my aspiration, in the least.

I was flummoxed.

I didn't see any way that I would fit a jointer the size of a battleship in my garage.
The instructor mentioned that he had a 6" Craftsman and lunchbox planer at home, what he could afford.

I felt that the approach of the school, while laudable, was heavy on conservation and light on innovation.
It focused on historical perspective, and as a result, produced what appeared to be fine replicas
for most of the full-time program.

Only when I saw the showcase of graduating students did I see novel approaches.

The instructor reluctantly showed his photo book to me, on the condition that I did not mention it,
and it was breathtaking, inventive and fresh.

He confided that there was no market for "his stuff" and clients kept asking for Hepplethwithe TV cabinets.

It pays the bills, mostly.

Teaching the classes started as a necessity, but he enjoyed the enthusiasm of us Noobs.

I loved that instructor's furniture, but took little from his instruction.

******

I've seen Paul Sellers display book, and it's not to my taste - but his stuff sells.

I'm not a fan of his furniture, but his instruction has made it possible
for me to start and finish projects; out of my basement shop.

Something of a paradox, that.