Yet another help me decide on a machine post...

[Martin Boekers]

There is nothing wrong with a Chinese laser. Even better if you are hands on and easily work with things. Each has it's place.

For the business I'm in, a Trotec, Epilog or ULS makes sense (for me) For the first couple years they are covered under warranty.
I have 2 Epilogs, (could easily be Trotecs or ULS) Say my cost was $30,000 ea with 260 work days a year ( just for fun say no weekends... )
Over a 5 year payoff, that's roughly $25 a day each (not counting depreciation.) In the nine years I have had them I have replace tubes in both(
4 total) Two there was no charge. A few motors here and there, encoder strips, a mother board and an amplifier board. So yes there is operating
expense with any piece of equipment. For me, even though the investment was quite a bit more than Non-Western Lasers, I new if one went down
I would be up and running within 24hrs, parts would be shipped overnight and someone would walk me through replacement. Only once was I
down 48hrs. I run the machine about 6 hours a day, so when one is down, I'm not making money, plus I am noted for quick turns so not making
a deadline could hurt the business... So that's why I chose what I chose.

When making a purchase decision explore your needs, what is important, price? customer service? speed? consistency? maintenance etc. Weight each
of these with contingencies and you'll find the right machine that fits your business/hobby model.

[Scott Shepherd]

I agree, each machine has it's place. I know for a fact that we couldn't have done a fair amount of work we have done over the years on a Chinese C02 laser. I would estimate that we have done well over $100,000 worth of work that wouldn't work on a Chinese C02 laser. What's the cost of that lost work? Well, clearly over $100,000. Would I have saved anything by buying one? Sure, I would have saved money up front, but it would have lost me all that work.

Does that mean you'll experience the same thing? I have no idea or no way of knowing. For what we do, the $3,000 laser simply won't work. It will work on a percentage of the stuff we do, but I'm not fond of leaving the rest of the money on the table for someone else to take, unchallenged. I'm not looking for a machine that will handle 60% of my needs, I need a machine that will handle 100% (or close) of my needs.

One can spout "I could buy 10 machines vs. 1 machine" all day long, but when you have a customer with a large order walk in the door and you can't service them on any of the 10 lasers you have stacked up in the new building you had to build to house them all, the value of them quickly becomes zero for that job.

It's all relative to what you do and what you want to do. What works fantastic for one person doesn't work at all for another person. It really is that individual of a decision.

[Kevin Gregerson]

Dan

My point is that "industry" has been using lower power CO2 lasers for years as a reliable and productive tools. That hobbyists are able to afford them does not make them less "industrial". As an engineer you know that you never buy a 400 watt machine if an 80 watt will do the job. The ROI just doesn't justify it.

Also, a 400 watt machine doesn't always to the job that a 75 or a 150 watt machine does.

400 watts with a small 1.5 lens could create a bit too much power density for some materials and it could render the kiss cut impossible. A 4000, 400 watt has it's place just as much as a 50 or 150 watt laser do in industry. It's just a mater of materials and your goals with those materials.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Predominantly the big names in lasers (Yamazaki(Mazak) Mitsubishi, Bystronic, Amada etc tend to be cutting lasers but the speed and acceleration figures for gantry based are astounding. I thought I had the best with the Mitsu and it's 5G accl but Primo-Syncrono are claiming 16G (and having seen one running I have few if any doubts they are being truthful).(5G doesn't sound like much but on running gear that weighs more than the average small machine it is)

As to focal lengths Kevin and power density, the big names usually have auto cartridge change so selecting focal lengths isn't a problem or they more usually use adaptive optics so making focal length of a lens moot. Power can be dialled down to practically zero BUT wavelength is always going to be an issue, we are still stuck with very small ranges for the resonators, sure I'm not going to be engraving on plywood at 4Kw or suchlike but that's a limitation of the wavelength more so than the actual machines.

The technology used on mid priced (sub $80k) machines is good...in some cases very good but still streets behind the facilities available on the main manufacturers boxes and years ahead of the Chinese cutters. One thing you can be sure of though, China will catch up VERY quickly, the one thing they are good at is taking other peoples developments and making them cheaper (for a number of financial reasons). An example is the SLC 200 watt GSI tube, that's a £22,000 pipe here (they are made in the UK) but I have just picked up a Chinese copy that performs within fractions of what my genuine tube does but at 1/4 the price!
They will do the same with everything else (Copyright in China is almost not heard of, they like it, they copy it) with just this week I've heard one of the bigger Chinese names has decided to get into the SLS Resin based 3D printer market.

Hopefully our Western manufacturers will respond and adapt or I very much fear they will go the same way the UK Motorcycle industry did.

In the West it is very much "We have a great product, lets sell lots of them for the next 5 years"

In the Far East it is "We have a great product, what can we change and how many should we plan to sell 30 years from now"

I agree with the guys though, (Scotty, Mike etc) if a 50 watt does it, buy a 50 watt just don't expect it to cut armour plate if that is what you need to do.

cheers

Dave