Gorilla ducting I just stare and scratch my head

[Larry Browning]

Well I figured out how to get the ducting from the gorilla into the shop, but that's about it. I just seem to stare at what I have done so far and think what do I do next? I have run 7" metal pipe from Oneida from the cyclone into the shop. From there I am switching to 6" S&D PVC. I want to run ducting under the floor to the TS. I think I can handle doing that, it will be a little tricky, but I think I can do it. But I have many detail questions. I can't seem to figure out how and where to attach support and bracing for the ducting so that it will stay in place along the ceiling and wall. As the drops come down to the tools, I can't figure how to brace the ducting so that it doesn't flop around as it hangs from the ceiling. How should I make the connection to the tool? should I always use flexable hose between the ducting and the tool? Or should I connect the ducting directly to the tool?
Here are some pictures of what I have done so far. At this point I really feel in over my head. I am afraid I am going to screw it up. I can't afford the expense of doing it over. So I jus sits and thinks Oh My! Oh My! What to do? What to do?
Here are some picture of my progress.

[Cecil Arnold]

Larry, I'm envious of your DC, sure wish I had something more than a Jet 1100 cart. I think there are a couple of things you should consider, and I know the rest will chime in. First, I think you should have at least a short piece of flex between the rigid pipe and tool. This will act as a shock absorber for tool vibration, hitting the tool, or anything else that can cause movement. It should keep your connections tighter than you would get with rigid connections IMHO. As far as hooking it to the ceiling, you can use plumber's straps/tape at the celing joist locations. While I have 4" on my drops and overhead, one thing I used was large (A/C type) tie wraps screwed to the studs/joist and snugged up as tight as I can get them. One of the creekers from Arkansas (he hosted a get together last year and I'm embarrised that I can't remember his name) has a web site that gives details for constructing some nice blast gates that you might want to look at.

[Chris Padilla]

Larry,

First thing I would do is to located and mark (blue painter's tape is good for this) studs along the wall and rafters in ceiling. At least that will give you points where you can drive screws for some kind of attachment.

The pipe going to your miter stations looks good...just keep going! Do has much hard piping as possible before switching to flex. If all of your machines are stationary, you should darn near be able to take hard pipe all the way to them.

For easy support, get some "plumber's tape." All this is is a glavanized metal "tape" with evenly space holes in it...maybe 1/2-3/4" wide. There should be a big bin of it at your local hardware store. Get some flat-head screws that won't go through the hole and you should be set. You may have to move your light strip slight or suffer a shadow from the DC pipe....

Hope this helps! "Just do it!"

[Chris Padilla]

One of the creekers from Arkansas (he hosted a get together last year and I'm embarrised that I can't remember his name) has a web site that gives details for constructing some nice blast gates that you might want to look at.

That would be Terry Hatfield: www.terryhatfield.com and Larry should well know this already!!

[Larry Browning]

That would be Terry Hatfield: www.terryhatfield.com and Larry should well know this already!!

Oh, I do! Terry has offered to come help me with this and I am planning on taking him up on his offer. But I have not been able to work on this more than an hour or 2 at a time. One of these days my life will get back to "normal" and I will be able to have more shop time.
Chris,
It seems to me that just using the plumbers strap hanger stuff(which I have about a 100 feet of by the way) would keep the pipe from falling on my head, but would do little in the way of keeping the tool drop from just flopping around.

[Dan Lyman]

For the tool drops, you'll need some support. You may be able to run the pipe to the floor and anchor it to the floor, or build a small stand of sorts that is pretty stable and attach the pipe to that. Or try to have the tool drops come off a wall where possible as there will be plenty of support when strapping it to the wall. I used PVC pipe and placed a couple or 3 3/8" sheet metal screw at each joint (fitting to pipe) and the screw barely poked through to the inside so would not clog, but adds support at the joints and keeps vertical pieces from slipping out.

I floundered for a while but found the answer was to jump in and work on 1 drop at a time. Breaking the big job into smaller jobs helped me get going and once I got going, it went a lot smoother. Also, remember it's a learning experience, so you will likely redo some of it but that's OK.

HTH

[John Bush]

Hi Larry,
Congrats on the new cyclone. I just finished a days worth of installing ducts for my new cyclone too. I also was able to locate the unit in an attached shed and used a 7" main across the shop. I had an HVAC pro-friend helping/showing me how to install and, tho at times tedius, wasn't too difficult. I am using 24ga. snap-lock and "official" strapping to hang the pipe. The strapping is solid(no holes)~1" wide and comes in a 100' roll. My buddy has a hand held punch that he uses to make a single hole close to the end, then screws it in the appropriate location, then we assembled the full length of the run on the floor, then lifted it into approx. postion, wrapped the strapping around and secured it with vice-grips and c-clamps to hold into postion until we layout the whole shop. I have lots of clamps, so I should be OK. He told me that code here states that each joint should be suppported by a strap and that both ends of all fittings need strapping as well. Thats for commercial/biomed stuff so overkill for DC, and with PVC rigid joints I think every 4' is plenty. His engineers say that a 2" screw with the "official" strapping can hold a 1200# vertical load. He had all the tools, so who's to argue.
We got the main run in and the branches laid out and now I will start working backwards from the machines to the branches. Everything is still in the layout phase,so any modifications will be easy.
I felt overwhelmed when he left, but was soon banging pipes like crazy. Just go for it.
As to your actual questions, the plumbers tape should be perfect. I would place a strap any place you feel support is warranted. We had to span a few joists with 2x4s to get the strapping to line up with the midline of the pipe a couple of times. I wanted to just make a V and attach to two joists but he stuck with his "code" way. Again, his tools, (and it did look more profesional).
I don't think the flex pipe hanging down will be a problem. I'm not sure why it would be flopping around and flexibility is probably a bennefit if you want to rearrange your shop.
Have fun with the rest of your project and keep us informed. Good luck, John.

[Larry Browning]

John,
I think you misunderstood the tool drop flopping around question. I wasn't talking about flex hose. I was talking about the hard pvc pipe as it comes down from the main line to the tool. It seems to me it will have nothing to keep if from flopping around. Especially if it is attached to the tool with a short length of flex hose.

It also sounds like others that have done this also had the problem of not knowing what to do next. I guess not having a drawing to go by is tripping me up a little. Maybe I should draw it out on paper first. I also am having trouble figuring out what length to cut the pipe.

By the way I probably won't get to work on this again until the weekend, so I will have plenty of time to think about it.

[Chris Lee]

Larry,

I had the same problem as you with my Gorilla. I have a 7"main that comes out about 6 feet and the drops to the floor. After the curve it drops down to 6" pipe. When I first installed it I used the same strapping everyone is talking about, only I just put it on the pipe run horizontal, I just let the vertical pipe hang. Big Mistake. When I turned on the DC the vertical pipe came off the wall at about a 45 degree angle. That was a sight to see. I have since used the strapping to wrap around the vertical pipes and screwed it into a stud. It does not move anymore. By the way, I had a 2"x2" cutoff laying on the floorso I moved my flex hose over to it just to see, next thing I hear is the sound of it going around the inside of the cyclone! I love this thing!

Chris

[Scott Coffelt]

I used plumbers wrap, the metal strapping that has holes every inch to attach the pipe to the ceiling. Since I made th blast gates like Terry Hatfield has, I made them so they touch the wall and I use them as a brace point by attaching some 2" angle brackets you get from the borg. It makes them real stable, especially if you can attach to a stud int he wall. Otherwise, I used some of those nice fasteners that screw into the wall and then accept a screw themselves. Finally, I took my piping to all the tools that would not be mobile this does two things (1) adds to the rigidity of the piping and (2) improves performance. Flex piping decreases CFM, so minimize where you can.

[JayStPeter]

Larry,

I used plumbers strapping on the ceiling. I made blast gates like Terry and mounted them to the wall to steady the drop coming from above. If the pipes are attached to the ceiling well, just the tape on the joints will hold the drops together just fine. If you put some small screws into the pipe through the strapping it's pretty darn solid. On one particularly gnarly drop, I used some strapping attached to the wall and pipe to hold it stable. I think you're overthinking things a little.
The biggest problem I had during the install was getting the 10' sections up attached to the ceiling without help. They are heavy when you're trying to screw the strapping at the same time.

Jay

[Frankie Hunt]

Larry,

Here is my version. I used tie wraps. I screwed a strip of wood along the ceiling. I created a slot on the ceiling side of the strip by making a slot on that side of the wood about 1/8 " deep, 2 sawblade kerfs in width. This allowed me to slide the tie wrap around the strip. Going across the roof trusses I used 1 strip. Going with the trusses I used multiple strips.

This was cheap, easy, and fast. I wanted the ducting tight against the ceiling, no wobbling, and the tie wraps work great in that aspect. They are self adjusting. They are pulled tight and snipped off with side cutters. This also does away with all strap measuring. Using tie wraps allowed me to do all my duct work by myself. All you do is put up a loop of tie wraps way oversized near the middle of a run, then slide the piping in place. It will hold until you move your ladder. Then you just snug it up and install additional tie wraps.

On the runs down to machinery I used fender washers to attach the tie wraps to. I drilled 2 screw holes in the washers. On some of the washers I had to bend them to allow clearance between the washer and the wall. (So that the tie wrap would slip under them.) I put them in a vise and bent them about 45 degrees.

In case you have never used tie wraps before, you can use multiple short ones in place of a single long one.

Perhaps these pictures will show better than words.

Frankie

[Chris Padilla]

Frankie,

Nice solution but keep an eye on those tie wraps...they will eventually "dry out" and be come brittle and crack on you unless you've found some that specifically state that such things won't happen....

[Bryan Nuss]

Larry,

I used pipe strapping to suspend the ducting from the ceiling and 6" hose clamps to attach the ducting directly to the wall with a wood screw as shown on the photos.

[Frankie Hunt]

Thanks Chris you are right about the tie wraps. I will keep an eye on them. The problem with tie wraps is UV light causes deterioration. Since they are inside this is not much of an issue. Most of the black ones are much more UV tolerant than the white ones. I have seen some very old tie wraps in a computer room that were still as good as new, still strong and flexable. Not brittle at all. (I bet these were almost 10 years old) While some that were outside were shot only after a year. There is also a huge range of quality on tie wraps. I still have a bundle of some very old tie wraps. They use a metal "tongue" latching mechanisim. The were VERY expensive when they first came out.

Frankie