Computer Server Installation Advice Needed

[Joe Mioux]

I am preparing for a new server installation and I am hoping some of you might direct me in the appropriate direction.

I have two stores, main store has 3 computers and the other 2. Every 2 or 3 hours the branch store dials in to the main stores "server" (just a pc) computer and up and downloads files.

I am planning on upgrading to a small business server with the capability of having the branch store's computers online during the business day.

Can I do this installation myself?
Can any of you direct me to a website to learn about this stuff?
What type of hardware/software do I need?

Anyother comments will be greatly appreciated

Thanks in advance
Joe

[Michael Cody]

I am preparing for a new server installation and I am hoping some of you might direct me in the appropriate direction.

I have two stores, main store has 3 computers and the other 2. Every 2 or 3 hours the branch store dials in to the main stores "server" (just a pc) computer and up and downloads files.

I am planning on upgrading to a small business server with the capability of having the branch store's computers online during the business day.

Can I do this installation myself?
Can any of you direct me to a website to learn about this stuff?
What type of hardware/software do I need?

Another comments will be greatly appreciated

Thanks in advance
Joe

Can you do this yourself? -- don't know, depends on your skill level.
Website for this? -- probably are a few, but not one that specifically walks you through this type of install...
What type of Hardware/software? -- there I can help you.

For what you are thinking, I would consider a couple of options. A lot depend on the type of POS software (that means Point of Sale not p*of*sh**) I have 2-3 customers with similar uses and what we did was put in a ISDN or dial-up line that stays up all the time. Price here in MI is about the same 40-50$ a month. (assuming they aren't long distance). If you use dial-up you can put a modem & dial-up networking on your server and stay connected all the time. Then you can just setup a shared drive and map it on the remote machines. Copy the data to that drive and pull into your software. If you want to the do all this realtime -- depending on your software you might be able to run it with some kind of client server setup but I fear it will be to slow w/o 128kb ISDN or DSL or something of the like. If you get into that, then you need routers (not expensive but still a few thundered each). There are lots of used old ISDN stuff on Ebay -- old technology but it works. You might even find some old dial-up routers, but finding someone who can set them up is much more difficult.

PC Hardware in your case -- not to big a deal .. a Pentium 2ghz+ with 512mb ram & 100-150gb of disk should suffice fine. You could go slower but that is a real cheap piece of hdw.. you need a good UPS and make sure it's got a CDRW for backup too and you are golden.

As to software I would look at MS Small Business Server 2003 .. great package -- some overkill in your case but not to expensive with 5 users. I am not too busy on Friday and have a bit of drive time after 3pm on Monday, even a little bit of time on the weekend I could talk to you voice if you are interested. BTW I do this stuff for a living since 1984 ... if it talks with electrons over wire I've worked on it one time or another. Send me an email and I will send you my cell number .. (free incoming)...

[Keith Christopher]

I am preparing for a new server installation and I am hoping some of you might direct me in the appropriate direction.

I have two stores, main store has 3 computers and the other 2. Every 2 or 3 hours the branch store dials in to the main stores "server" (just a pc) computer and up and downloads files.

I am planning on upgrading to a small business server with the capability of having the branch store's computers online during the business day.

Can I do this installation myself?
Can any of you direct me to a website to learn about this stuff?
What type of hardware/software do I need?

Joe,

I would strongly recommend not doing this yourself. Even though I would LOVE to say I'm a woodworker full time. I'm not. I manage thousands of computers (literally) with my team. All internet based. I will not name drop but suffice to say companies making literally millions a year from these.
Putting your business computer online without proper guidance and precautions can be disasterous. I am assuming these are running windows of some level (XP, ME, 2000, 2003. . .) With the patches bug fixes and security fixes, managing a set of servers that is online is a FULL time job in itself. Last thing you need is someone explotiing a weakness and gaining full access and CONTROL of your computers.

I would recommend hiring someone/company to setup a firewall at each of your sites. No not those lame "firewall included" with router types, these are basic and quick to circumvent. Once the firewalls are in place, (Gauntlet, Nokia running checkpoint) you can VPN between stores safely. Block EVERYTHING that is not on the VPN.

Oh VPN is virtual private network, it is basically an encrypted "tunnel" in the network that only the two firewalls can pass traffic thru. And considering internet traffic is not "private" your traffic/information passes through MANY places to get to its destination and can be "viewed" by those who own the routers.

I am not trying to scare you but not taking the time or spending the money upfront can cost alot later.

I know you don't know me from Adam, but trust that hacks and attempted hack occur every second of every day.

[Jim Becker]

I'm with Kieth on this...not a DIY project. Further, this is a software decision first. Your applications will dictate what you need in the way of infrastructure to support it. Talk to several firms who specialize in small business point of sale (and backoffice) systems, get proposals/bids, references and then make your decision. And don't forget post-sales support as part of the evaluation.

[Mike Weaver]

Joe,
...Last thing you need is someone explotiing a weakness and gaining full access and CONTROL of your computers.

I would recommend hiring someone/company to setup a firewall at each of your sites. No not those lame "firewall included" with router types, these are basic and quick to circumvent. Once the firewalls are in place, (Gauntlet, Nokia running checkpoint) you can VPN between stores safely. Block EVERYTHING that is not on the VPN.

Oh VPN is virtual private network, it is basically an encrypted "tunnel" in the network that only the two firewalls can pass traffic thru. And considering internet traffic is not "private" your traffic/information passes through MANY places to get to its destination and can be "viewed" by those who own the routers.

I am not trying to scare you but not taking the time or spending the money upfront can cost alot later.

I know you don't know me from Adam, but trust that hacks and attempted hack occur every second of every day.

I can't agree with Keith and Jim more.

I do Computer Security for a living, and they give sound advice.

Spend the "extra" $$ and have it done right. It will save you a LOT of grief down the road and considerable $$ versus having to clean up a breach of customer data.

I don't mean to be an alarmist, but even for home broadband users I recomment, no, make that insist on, a router that does NAT (network address translation) AND a personal firewall (not built into the operating system. I personally run with a NAT router (that also has a stateful firewall built in), personal firewall software AND the MS firewall activated. My standard user doesn't have adminitrative right to the machine either.

You can't be the slowest ship in the convoy....it gets sunk every time in war.

Good luck,
-Mike

[Joe Mioux]

Thank you everyone: You answered the way I thought you would. So it will be a professional install.

I am not changing my POS software, this is a specific program for my industry and I have had this particular program for 6 years. The vendor is constantly upgrading....like every 2 or 3 days and I stay current with my support.
All I am doing is changing out my two LANS (one at each store) to a true server where the other five computers will then turn into dumb terminals.

The software owner has a couple of installers through out the US that does the hardware/software installation. I really don't want to pay for a installer to come out from NY for a couple days and spend $1500+ when I can have a local networking company do the same thing.


Joe

[Michael Ballent]

Thank you everyone: You answered the way I thought you would. So it will be a professional install.

I am not changing my POS software, this is a specific program for my industry and I have had this particular program for 6 years. The vendor is constantly upgrading....like every 2 or 3 days and I stay current with my support.
All I am doing is changing out my two LANS (one at each store) to a true server where the other five computers will then turn into dumb terminals.

The software owner has a couple of installers through out the US that does the hardware/software installation. I really don't want to pay for a installer to come out from NY for a couple days and spend $1500+ when I can have a local networking company do the same thing.


Joe

Heck my company has a fleet of contractors pulling in $200-300 per hour I think I need to leave and come back as a contractor If it makes you feel any better our latest server was a little less the $500K, now that is sticker shock. $1500 is not too bad, provided they know what they are doing.

[Joe Mioux]

Heck my company has a fleet of contractors pulling in $200-300 per hour I think I need to leave and come back as a contractor If it makes you feel any better our latest server was a little less the $500K, now that is sticker shock. $1500 is not too bad, provided they know what they are doing.

Michael: My point is, all I am asking is to have a small server link 5 pc's with MS Terminal Services. After the 5 pcs are able to talk with each other, I want them to talk in my Visual Ticket software computer language.

I have been talked out of doing the hardware install myself, but why can't the local computer guys do the hardware stuff? I have done the software stuff before, shared files, printers, map drives etc?

joe

[Jim Becker]

Joe, there is no reason you could not use a local firm to do what you propose. My advice stands...check out several including references and be sure they actually know something about MS Terminal Services...it's not a very common usage and the "mom and pop" computer guru companies may never have installed it. You don't want that! Maybe one of the new "Geek" operations would be useful for this... (You may also want to consider "thin terminals" for your remote stations to reduce counter space, etc., since you really don't need heavy computing capablity there for MS Terminal services. (But you DO at the server end...)

[John Hart]

Another IT guy here with my two cents. I agree that you shouldn't do it yourself if you are not fluent in the intracacies of today's intersite communications. It is complicated and there are dangers out there that demand that you are configured properly. Mike offered his help with the install and that will help tons when it comes to the initial setup...but after that, it is inevitable that there will be snags, problems, questions that he may not be available. Like Jim suggested, you may want to shop around for someone like the geeksquad that will charge a monthly service fee to be on call. I only suggest it this way because a lot of contractors will over charge you for equipment and labor big time and if you have someone who will help you can be a great asset.

[Michael Ballent]

I agree with Jim, Terminal Services is a bit of a new one for a lot of the smaller companies. Most of your hardware dollars will be going for the server, networking setup and then finally the thin clients. The networking part and setting up the TS server will be the most tricky part. An inexpensive terminal for each POS station would make the most sense, since they do not take up much space. We have factories around the world that are connecting to a Terminal Server to control the factory flow of product. So I think that you are on the right track. You do need a lot of bandwidth to support TS. All that is being sent over the "wire" is the delta of the screen paints (in it's simplest terms) Just make sure that the folks (local or other) know how to deal with the MS TS and have all the usual certifications from MS.

Good luck.

Joe, there is no reason you could not use a local firm to do what you propose. My advice stands...check out several including references and be sure they actually know something about MS Terminal Services...it's not a very common usage and the "mom and pop" computer guru companies may never have installed it. You don't want that! Maybe one of the new "Geek" operations would be useful for this... (You may also want to consider "thin terminals" for your remote stations to reduce counter space, etc., since you really don't need heavy computing capablity there for MS Terminal services. (But you DO at the server end...)

[Joe Mioux]

YOu guys are making it really hard for me....


It appears that my best approach is to have the NY guys come in and do the complete install. They know the hardware AND the software configuartions.

I hope you are all happy with yourselves, this means that my MM16 will be on hold for sometime now lol

Joe

[Michael Ballent]

YOu guys are making it really hard for me....


It appears that my best approach is to have the NY guys come in and do the complete install. They know the hardware AND the software configuartions.

I hope you are all happy with yourselves, this means that my MM16 will be on hold for sometime now lol

Joe

It stinks that your MM16 will be on hold... but you can think of it this way... If your system goes bust your business will be hurt as well. Just think of how much it would cost you if your network goes south and it takes a couple of days to troubleshoot it, or any other part of your infrastucture goes south... What ever company you endup with make sure that there are appropriate SLA (Service Level Agreements) in the contract (like response time to begin working on something that goes down) and penalties if they do not meet the SLA. I know that it sounds ugly, but it sounds like if your computer system goes down, can you continue to operate? also the most forgotten item... How often are you backing up and are the backups going off site . I have to deal with business continuity everyday so I always think of the worst possible scenario and then develop what can be done to minimize the damage.

One last item, congrats on being able to maintain a thriving business with multiple stores, and I hope that you can continue to grow your business so you can get that MM16 and maybe even a Felder hehehe

[Joe Mioux]

It stinks that your MM16 will be on hold... but you can think of it this way... If your system goes bust your business will be hurt as well. Just think of how much it would cost you if your network goes south and it takes a couple of days to troubleshoot it, or any other part of your infrastucture goes south... What ever company you endup with make sure that there are appropriate SLA (Service Level Agreements) in the contract (like response time to begin working on something that goes down) and penalties if they do not meet the SLA. I know that it sounds ugly, but it sounds like if your computer system goes down, can you continue to operate? also the most forgotten item... How often are you backing up and are the backups going off site . I have to deal with business continuity everyday so I always think of the worst possible scenario and then develop what can be done to minimize the damage.

One last item, congrats on being able to maintain a thriving business with multiple stores, and I hope that you can continue to grow your business so you can get that MM16 and maybe even a Felder hehehe

Hi Michael:
Up until two days ago, a back up is made every night with a alternate tape coming home with me. Unfortunately, my tape drive broke.

As far as support, it doesn't get any better. If I have a problem, I call the vendor, he logs into my computer and ussually in less than 20 minutes the problem is fixed. The software I use is called Visual Ticket, the data base program is called FoxPro. ONe of my former designers is a programmer for AmerenUE (gas and electric utility in the MO and IL region) and she told me that FoxPro is pretty old.

Joe

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Hi Michael:
Up until two days ago, a back up is made every night with a alternate tape coming home with me. Unfortunately, my tape drive broke.

As far as support, it doesn't get any better. If I have a problem, I call the vendor, he logs into my computer and ussually in less than 20 minutes the problem is fixed. The software I use is called Visual Ticket, the data base program is called FoxPro. ONe of my former designers is a programmer for AmerenUE (gas and electric utility in the MO and IL region) and she told me that FoxPro is pretty old.

Joe

Joe...and that's why you want the vendor to do the upgrade! As a service engineer for a major medical equiment company I regularly get involved with a customer who decides we are too expensive. They hire a 3rd party service company or buy a product used with a product we sold them. When things don't work out as they should, they bring us in. Billed Service is expensive...and then there's the finger pointing ...they did it...no...they did it. It's a hassle. You won't regret getting the vendor you know, trust and whose services please you...to do that upgrade. One company, one place to got for complaints or pats on the back. Good luck with the upgrade. Just think of all the improvements that will be on that MM16 when you can afford it!