Japanese Marking Gauges - a Pleasant Surprise

[David Weaver]

Probably only because nobody has one. I like a cutting gauge like that, but have a western gauge already for it, and a long panel cutting guage (that I got from stu, I think it's actually a drywall tool).

I'm lazy enough that I like a gauge that has a threaded locking mechanism, though I can't imagine it makes much difference.

the good thing about those inexpensive cutting gauges is that you can pretty much fettle them care free without worrying about damaging their value.

I know a lot of the gauges have wear plates on them, or in the case if kinshiro, something else bolted on, but the old japanese white oak gauges I've seen never look too warn, and that one is made of white oak, so I can't imagine there would be wear problems with it.

[Derek Cohen]

I was interested why no one has said anything about these, they are dirt cheap.Attachment 299348

Because, if you are going to get a Japanese cutting gauge, get one with knives that extend to the end, and are not inserted into an arm.

The Kinshiro/Ryuma type have a similar advantage to the wheel types that are sold by Lee Valley and Tite-Mark - they have the best visibility and are the easiest to adjust to depth. The wheels have the most control while the knives cut deepest. Look for gauges that can be easily adjusted with one hand.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tony Shea]

I will be very interested to your gauge from Stu when it shows up David. I have eyed that exact gauge a couple times but never actually pulled the trigger. For the price it should be very nice.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Because, if you are going to get a Japanese cutting gauge, get one with knives that extend to the end, and are not inserted into an arm.


Regards from Perth

Derek

I'm sorry if it seems like it should be obvious, but I do not understand why I would prefer the full blade type over the blade in the arm, from a practical stand point.
I'm very tight on cash right now but I need a couple gauges, do these cut any less good than the other kind? I don't mind the visibility thing so much or one hand ability, sure it's nice but not critical, though the wedge type can be adjusted one handed by tapping either end of the beam on the bench. I have a Veritas wheel gauge so I'm pretty much covered for dovetail base lines.

Thanks.

[Randy Karst]

Yes, I actually have both of them; the less expensive gauge and the precision "Kegaki" (more expensive gauge). The less expensive gauge benefits from a significant amount of "fettling" but is both usable and useful - I like what Derek has done with his. However, once you have and use the more expensive one, its pretty much game over-I love this thing. I have several marking gauges but this one is in my hand more than any other (including a Hamilton's and a Tite-mark; having said that, each has their niche). David, I think you will find a lot of enjoyment owning and using the more expensive gauge; its probably the closest thing to a Kinshiro now available.

[Derek Cohen]

I'm sorry if it seems like it should be obvious, but I do not understand why I would prefer the full blade type over the blade in the arm, from a practical stand point.
I'm very tight on cash right now but I need a couple gauges, do these cut any less good than the other kind? I don't mind the visibility thing so much or one hand ability, sure it's nice but not critical, though the wedge type can be adjusted one handed by tapping either end of the beam on the bench. I have a Veritas wheel gauge so I'm pretty much covered for dovetail base lines.

Thanks.

Hi Matthew

This thread is a lot like the sharpening thread that is now discussing the different CBN wheels. It is well to remind ourselves of the law of diminishing returns.

One does not need expensive and exotic tools for building furniture. They are a luxury - yes, they can work better and they will likely bring more pleasure when used - but how would anyone know this without something to contrast against? I would never recommend any of this stuff for those starting out. They don't need it and they would not appreciate it. The cheap stuff works, and works well enough not to question it.

The cheap gauges work. They worked before I modified them. They work a whole lot better since I modified them. There is still a difference between them and the Kinshiro I own.

I toyed with the idea of buying another Kinshiro because they are not going to be something easy to replace. However, for $350 (with shipping) it is a lot to spend on a little piece of wood, and there are a lot of other gauges that will strike a line, and do so as accurately, and with as much beauty. I decided to pass. I may regret this in the future when they cost many times what they do now, but the logic will (hopefully) remain the same.

The cheap Japanese gauges should work out of the box. Note, however, that you do get what you pay for - the steel is not great. I found mine both poorly sharpened and coarse. The edges needed to be refined, and even then they do not hold an edge as I like for as long as I want. The Kinshiro has never been sharpened! And I have had it a couple of years. My experience with single knife gauges is not positive - the knives are wedged in tightly and are difficult to loosen and adjust to a projection of choice. It is all a compromise of features and costs.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mike Holbrook]

Matthew you have fallen in with a bunch of frequently older, a little OCD, woodworkers who frequently are less concerned with price than esoteric function.

Derek's reasons for preferring double blades make sense to me. Even using the double for making single lines one has the option of having the cleaner side of the knife line on either side of the cut. I guess I am back in the double knife corner again.

The heads on the locking screws used on the Kegaki look very unique to me. I don't think I have ever seen screw/nut heads shaped like that. This was the "feature" of the kegaki in Stu's picture that I was not sure would wind up part of the current model. Thanks to David for explaining a little about Japanese tool market organization. Sounds like we can expect specs/features/appearance on these Japanese tools to remain more consistent than is the case with US tools.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Thanks very much guys, it's good to hear you put it into perspective, even though I feel I have a clear view when you guys talk a certain way I start wondering if I'm missing something.

I will go ahead, soon, and get a few of the cheapie ones. I think I can turn 2 of them into fixed pin mortise gauges and leave 2 as is. of course I will refine them to work as smoothly as I can get them. for 6$ into not worth my time to try and make them and I DO like the white oak, if the ones I get are as nice as the photo.

[Kees Heiden]

Well, I could use a better morticing gauge too, but I have a question about these single bevel, knife type ones. When marking the mortice this seems perfect. The bevel is on the waste side. But how about the tenon? Then I think I would prefer the bevels on the other side. At the moment I use a cheap pin guage, and that leaves bevels on both sides, so the pain is equally distributed over both the mortice and the tenon.

In fact the mortice is being ruled by the mortice chisel, so the side of the bevels isn't too important, but the tenon is sawed, so there I would prefer the bevels to be the other way around.

Any comments, before I pull the plug on these?

[Matthew N. Masail]

I'd also like to hear comments on that. with a thin scribed line I highly doubt how much it matter. unless the line is thick then it might effect where the chisel registers by 0.1-5mm, but those with experience will know. when sawing a tenon I imagine it matters a lot more from which SIDE you make a knife wall with a chisel the guide the saw or on which side of the line you start the saw, than the miniature geometry of the line itself.

[Brian Holcombe]

Matthew, I think it's probably best to get one of these in time. I have managed to do everything so far with a steel square, panel gauge and a marking gauge with a knife edge. I think I'll get a good mortise gauge soon enough, but you can make due without one for quite some time.

I don't mean to imply that they are unnecessary, but rather that you can work around not having one until they are able to be afforded.

[ken hatch]

I'm on the road so unable to post images but my gauge from the 70's is the same as David's and as he pointed out the irons extend enough the beam does not interfer.

[Reinis Kanders]

I have been happy with Lee Valley pin wheel double mortise gauge, works well, especially if you get the extra little thing that locks both bars together. That said I just ordered fancy gauge from the Tools from Japan to see what that is like and I sort of felt a "need" for it