Gravograph Lasers?

[Michael Hunter]

Anyone had any experience with Gravograph laser machines?

They are doing an upgrade deal and would give me a good price for my 10-year-old Epilog.

Apparently the machines are made in France, have air-cooled metal tubes and high speed operation (up to 4m/s).

[Joe Pelonio]

Check out the details. Make sure you can use other software. I remember when their rotary engravers only worked with their program and when there was a problem help was hard to get.

[Scott Shepherd]

If there machine side is anything like their supply side, then I wouldn't consider it. We did very little with them over the years because of their horrible service. We were down to one product we got from them because a customer specified it. It was a paper tape and the customer had to have the paper tape. They sent the order to us, it wasn't paper tape (despite being named "paper tape"). I called, they said they'd look into it and call me back. Called back the next day, they "looked into it" again, never called me back. Called back the third day, "they'll look into it and call me back". Called me back, told me they did change vendors, they'd send me a replacement order. New order comes in, it's wrong again. I called back, they said "Well, we changed vendors and that's what it's like now". I explained that it was an acetate tape now, and they said "Well, that's what it is now, I guess". I said "Don't you think you shouldn't call Acetate Tape, Paper Tape in the name? Shouldn't something named Paper Tape be made from Paper Tape?".

All I got was "I'm sorry, I don't know what else to do, we changed vendors".

So a product we've been buying for 7 years is now gone because they are too incompetent to actually realize that their new supplier is delivering the wrong product.

I'm actually somewhat glad. Now I never have to order anything from them, ever again. One of the worst companies in the business, in my opinion.

[Mike Null]

My experience with them was also a recurring nightmare. I finally sold my machine and vowed never to do business with them again.

Their equipment has always been top notch but don't expect anything from them after you give them your money.

[Ross Moshinsky]

We have their LS100 Laser. It's not new, I believe is a 2006 model. It's a well built machine overall. We did have had some problems.

We received the machine with a bad X bearing and never could quite diagnose it until finally it got pretty bad. It took years to completely fail in all fairness.

The keypad is a bit of a consumable. Not super expensive but it's a flip of the coin whether or not it's in stock.

The engraving speeds I believe have changed. My machine engraves at about 80ips as far as I can tell. It has a "draft" mode which makes it run MUCH faster but the engraving quality suffers as a result. I do know they advertise new machines at "Trotec" speeds.

You don't need the Gravostyle software but the alternative print drivers I have aren't very good. So basically you're probably going to want to buy the software and it's expensive and has a dongle. I'm on older software and it's buggy. I've never touched a piece a Gravostyle software that didn't have one or two major bugs. With that said, it has a lot of convenient "engravers" options.

The belts and bearings are of a high quality. My tube is holding up well. It must have most of the charge left. It shows no leaking as I do flexibrass on it regularly.

The biggest issue with their machines/company is as follows:

1. Customer service. If you have a problem, calling them up won't do much. Every once in a while you get someone on the phone that knows something, but it's not all that often. So if your machine has an issue, you have to figure it out or pay a tech A LOT of money to help.

2. Parts costs are ridiculous. X rail and bearing from them was something like $900. Same thing online was $300-400 or so. I have a problem with the machine overheating because they neglected to install a fan which now years later has caused a part to fail. I have to change the whole electronics rack which costs $2000+ and comes with an impressive 90 day warranty.

3. Software. It works but it's buggy. If you buy their software, it's very expensive and you're stuck in a proprietary software with a dongle.

I can't say I'd recommend their laser engravers. Their rotary engravers are a bit of a different story.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Made the mistake once and only once....now they are one of the few Uk suppliers I won't touch with somebody else's bargepole

cheers

Dave

[Paul Phillips]

I know nothing of their lasers but I have an IS8000 rotary Engraver, built like a tank, only 3 days of downtime in 11 years, got it with the Gravostyle software and loathed it, it always seemed like they did a poor job translating it over from the original French version, always felt too "foreign" to me and they wanted about $3000+ for an upgrade, switched to Flexi Engrave and love it. Customer service has always seemed hit and miss to me.

[Eric j Allen]

Unreliable- to put it in one word.
Some nice features with the software, that's all I liked.

[Michael Hunter]

Thanks guys! From your comments, its pretty clear why they don't get talked about much!

Question was solved by the pricing and sizes anyway - the nice big one (2' x 4' bed) is too expensive and the one down (2' x 2') too small.

[Kev Williams]

Unreliable? Check my machines below- The three 5000's are over 25 years old. The 3200 and three 3400's are nearing 20 years old. The Concept2000 is 32 years old. The IS7000 is 9 years old, the IS400 is 2 years old... My ULS laser is 19 years old, the LS900 is 10 years old, the vinyl cutter must be getting close to 20 years old. I've owned many since new, others used, never more than a couple years old...

The combined age of my NH equipment totals over 240 years. Down time? There's been a few days while doing upgrades and maintenance here and there. But the only "can't work because something bad happened" downtime was the power supply in my LS900, at 9 years old. My rep and I spend a day trying to fix it, another day waiting to get a rebuilt replacement.

2 days failure out of 240 years. My vote is "reliable"

The only NH parts I have any real issues with are the EP modules, but they're not 'machines', they're just 386 and 486 computers. And usually the problem with them is just a CMOS battery or a power switch.

Customer service? What can I say, haven't needed any... Plus, I got lucky and have the best NH rep on the planet

[Dave Sheldrake]

That's US based Kev, in the UK Gravograph have a dreadful reputation

cheers

dave

[Mike Null]

They do here as well!!!!

[Martin Boekers]

Just last week I received a bill from the for product that was ordered over a year ago...... I ordered online, a week later when I checked to see why I hadn't received it
I was told it was backordered. I cancelled the order because I missed a client's deadline. A week later the product came in with a bill.. I called and explained it was no good to me now.
They apologized and said to keep it no charge... Now I get a delinquent statement saying past due from July 2013!!!! First I heard from that encounter.... This was just product,
I can't imagine ordering a laser from them. You have an Epilog and you know the service you get... expect the exact opposite from Gravograph....

[Kev Williams]

As usual, I'm wrong again. Guess I should consider myself lucky to have bought the only good machines NH ever built.

six two and even, over and out

[Scott Shepherd]

No need to take offense when someone has the opposite experience as you Kev. Just because you have 3 machines and they don't give you any issues doesn't translate into everyone else the company serves gets that kind of product from them. If 9 people have a horrible experience with someone and you have a great experience with them, it doesn't make you wrong or them right. It just means that not as many people seem to have the luck you did with them. This isn't a match to see who's right or wrong, it's a forum to show different experiences from different people. You had, and still have, a great experience. That's worth mentioning and very valid.

You also need to realize not everyone has that same experience and that doesn't make them wrong either.

I also know most companies don't make many machines like they used to and some companies have changed radically over the years. Our Xenetech rotary engraver is built like a tank. I think Xenetech build the tables for someone, or either someone else built them and everyone used them, but they are bulletproof. We bought the machine in probably 1995 and it's still running today, with only one real mechanical issue in 18 years.

Would I buy from them today? Not if they had the only machine on the planet. They have radically changed as a company, when the guy that started it died, and the way they approach "customer service" is not something I'm interested in. They abandon legacy drivers really quickly compared to everyone else in the industry, when they have bugs in the software, you'll probably pay for the tech support to have them tell you that it's a bug, and that they have no plans on fixing it because it's a 2 year old driver, etc.

Would I say our Xenetech is great? Yes. Would I buy from them today? Nope.