Byrd Shelix Cutter insert Wrong Orientation ?

[Elman Concepcion]

Elman, this is just my 2-cents. Feel free to accept or reject as you like. Again, I have no affiliation with Byrd, but I handle customer support for my own stuff, so...

I would pick up the phone and call them now. This is obviously bothering you and perhaps the answer is a simple one that could be handled in 5 minutes on the phone? Speak to a live person and explain the situation. Byrd is a family-run company and I suspect they don't (or won't) have time to browse chat forums or get bogged down in pages of threads and photos. If they're like any of us in the industry, there are probably dozens of emails that stacked up over the Thanksgiving weekend and who knows how long it will take to wade through all of them? Emails are low priority. Phone calls are high priority when it comes to customer support. That may not be what you want to hear but it's the truth. People can vent on chat forums but a chat forum is not going to solve your issue. Only Byrd can do that.

Emailing photos and stuff photos AFTER you make live contact with a support rep is fine but the person who chooses to INITIATE support via email is voluntarily putting themselves at the back of the line. I hope this makes sense and I hope you get speedy resolution.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

Hi Erik

Thank you for sharing your experience with me.

Concerning Venting. I know I let out a little steam, but not unreasonably so, I think.
The reason I posted here as I said before in a previous post was due to Byrd not being available due to the holidays.

Maybe email is low priority, but Byrd responded to my email this morning at 8:06 AM
So I thought it polite to give them time to respond.

[Myk Rian]

Remove the screw and see if it is just crooked or defective.

Did you even look at the first picture?

[Bill Space]

Hi,

While it is most likely that firms put browsing forums like this as a low priority, that may be unfortunate for family run busnisses (small) like Byrd, as I am (was) about to buy a Byrd head for my 15" planer, but now it is on hold...

I look forward to hearing what is going on from their end.

Contrast(possibly) Papa Grizzly (Shiraz), who seems to find the time to browse forums, and post (certainly less frequently than he views content) occasionally.

My guess that there has been a design change...hard to imagine something that odd would not have been picked up before shipment.

[Alan Schaffter]

I'll start with two statements- (1) From observing other threads that show measurements, I take most of them with a grain of salt; and (2) There is a lot more to Byrd Shelix geometry than most realize.

It is generally accepted that for a cutter to leave a smooth surface, the cutting edge "must" follow a circle whose center of rotation is the same as the journal- all points on the cutting edges "must" be the same distance from the center of rotation. (It is not important that all points on the cutting edges are the same distance from the surface of the journal which is often not perfect since there is no need for it to be.) Unfortunately, to measure this we must use another reference point like the outfeed table. For those measurements to be accurate the outfeed table must parallel to the center of rotation of the journal.

Now, when you skew a straight segmented cutter to create a shear cut, all points on the cutting edge will no longer be the same distance from the center of rotation (see drawing). To correct for this, Byrd puts a slight radius to the edge of the cutter. But . . . . . that does not completely fix the problem since the radius is an approximation. And . . . . . to further complicate the issue, every Byrd journal, regardless of diameter, from small lunchbox planers with 2+" diameter journals to 20" planers with large 3" - 4" diameter journals, uses the same Byrd insert!!!

How can that be you ask? Shouldn't there be a unique insert cutter with a unique radius for each diameter of journal!?!?!? Well yes and no- manufacturing and stocking different sizes and shapes of insert cutters would be cost prohibitive. Using the same insert cutter, by the way, is why most Byrd Shelix heads leave small scallops in the stock- the size of the scallops depends on the diameter of the head. Also, as it turns out, the difference in the distance between all points on the curved cutting edges of cutters on all Byrd journals and center of rotation is very small for the most popular sizes of journal so the scallops are small enough that they can be removed with a light pass or two with 150 grit or card scraper. (By the way, I'm not making this stuff up. A Byrd engineer confirmed my analysis several years ago)

Theoretical insert with a straight edge. The same situation exists with an insert having a radius on the cutting edge, though it is less pronounced. (Replace "surface" with "center of rotation.")

[John R Green]

Just installed Byrd Head in Powermatic 54A Jointer.
Looks just like yours.
Crooked tooth lines up with rabbet groove on my machine.

IMG_4137.jpgIMG_4136.jpg

[J.R. Rutter]

Just installed Byrd Head in Powermatic 54A Jointer.
Looks just like yours.
Crooked tooth lines up with rabbet groove on my machine.

IMG_4137.jpgIMG_4136.jpg

Like I said, and these ^^ pics show nicely, the outermost tooth has to be turned so that the very outside tip is doing the cutting, otherwise the inside corner of the rabbet would not be square. The overall spiral direction helps push the board towards the fence. If the spiral turned in the other direction, the outer tooth would not need to be rotated, but then the board would tend to push away from the fence, which is less than ideal.

The height tolerance on the tooth in OP's head is another, unrelated issue.

John: How does your head cut on the outside edge - any height related issue like a step left in the jointed face?

[John R Green]

John: How does your head cut on the outside edge - any height related issue like a step left in the jointed face?[/QUOTE]

John Green replies ......As flat as the "flat earth society thought the world was"

[Elman Concepcion]

Here is what the rabbeting insert is doing for me.
Square is Starrett #20 1.5"

[Elman Concepcion]

John: How does your head cut on the outside edge - any height related issue like a step left in the jointed face?

John Green replies ......As flat as the "flat earth society thought the world was"[/QUOTE]

Hi John
I must be unlucky.
Check out my previous picture.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Elman,

Your photograph is interesting.

Does the back side of the head align properly with the edge of the beds or does the backside of the cutter extend beyond the beds towards the bearing mounts?

Does the width of the new head assembly measure the same width as the old cutter head it's replacing or is it narrower?

It's almost like there is a spacer missing that would move the cutter head towards front or outside edge.

[Elman Concepcion]

Elman,

Your photograph is interesting.

Does the back side of the head align properly with the edge of the beds or does the backside of the cutter extend beyond the beds towards the bearing mounts?
Does the width of the new head assembly measure the same width as the old cutter head it's replacing or is it narrower?
It's almost like there is a spacer missing that would move the cutter head towards front or outside edge.

Hi Ken

I'm sorry.
I having difficulty interpreting what you are asking.
Can you please rephrase.

Thanks
Elman

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Do the cutters on the fence side of the cutter head line up with the edge of the fence side of the beds or does those same cutters extend beyond the fence side of the table?

Based on the photograph you posted, it would almost appear that the cutter head assembly should have a spacer on the shaft to move the entire assembly away from the fence side of the table.

Have you heard back from Byrd? Have you called Byrd?

[Elman Concepcion]

Do the cutters on the fence side of the cutter head line up with the edge of the fence side of the beds or does those same cutters extend beyond the fence side of the table?
Based on the photograph you posted, it would almost appear that the cutter head assembly should have a spacer on the shaft to move the entire assembly away from the fence side of the table.
Have you heard back from Byrd? Have you called Byrd?

The rabbeting insert sticks out from the outfeed table about 1/16"
Exactly like the photo John R Green posted.
I think that is how it is supposed to be, to give clearance for rabbeting.

I called Byrd Yesterday.
They said they had an engineer looking into it.

Have not heard back.

[Jim Andrew]

Wish the Byrd head I have on my G0609 jointer was built like that. I lost the rabbeting option when I installed my Byrd head.

[Elman Concepcion]

Wish the Byrd head I have on my G0609 jointer was built like that. I lost the rabbeting option when I installed my Byrd head.

You would not wish it if the rabbeting insert was .0035" higher than all the other inserts.