Last coat of Waterlox puddled up: what do I do now?

[James Dudley]

IMG_1754 copy.jpg

So I don't know why the system turned that on its side, but oh well.

First of all: HEY! Been creeping this forum for a little while, getting tips and knowledge. Thank you all.

So I've run into a small (I hope) problem that (I hope) you guys can (I hope!) help me fix.

Here's the scenario.

3-inch slab of Sapele. Beeeeyoootiful wood.

Put in some walnut keys to secure some natural cracks in the wood. Sanded the tops of both pieces to 220.

Decided to use Waterlox Original (lot low VOC).

Followed the directions from Waterlox on the first two coats: use a natural brush, apply liberally. Things went fairly well. First coat totally soaked in, surface was darker but totally dull still.

2nd coat, brush, liberal application (following guidelines as to how much). mostly soaked in, a few semi-shiny spots as it was building a bit. Noticed a few bubbles in the 2nd coat, but nothing bad.

Because of the bubbles, decided on the third coat to do a rub application--lint-free cloth inside a pantyhose, dipped in Waterlox (thinned with 10% mineral spirits). Went on fine. Much thinner coat here, just enough to wet the wood a bit. Rubbed it in. Went really well, getting a smoother finish now. I'm NOT going for a glass-like glossy finish. But I do want it sealed (this will be a kitchen island top).

Figured one more thin coat would probably do it. Applied just like the third, but I noticed that in places...as I applied it...the waterlox kinda puddled up immediately. As you'd see if you put water on clean glass.

I thought "well crap", but was already in it. Plus, I assumed (wrongly as it turns out) that the Waterlox would even out/run to low spots and once it set, the "puddles" would be gone.

In some places, yes. In most, no.

So I'm left with a slightly bumpy surface. You really can only see it in just the right light, but I want this thing to come out right. So I've stopped work (this was 4 days ago) and I'm figuring out what to do now.

Should I dry sand it once it cures?

Should I wet sand it w/Mineral Spirits now? Or wait?

I do NOT want to build multiple more coats to even it out, as it'll be way too thick at that point.

I'd prefer not to sand it all off and start over. There's gotta be a way to get these "puddles" gone, even if it's removing SOME of the previous coats.

Do I just strip w/mineral spirits or something? What do I do here?

My goal, again, is a semi-gloss at most finish. I want it to feel like wood still, but be protected since it'll be a kitchen work space.

Help?

[Kent A Bathurst]

How long did you wait between coats 2 and 3?

How long between 3 and 4?

Anything else happen then, like scuff-sanding?

[Prashun Patel]

Scott, the op is using waterlox original non voc, which i take to mean original sealer finish. This is already thinned and is the right wiping consistency out of the can. Thinning further is what i strongly believe got him in this pickle. Are you suggesting that he should thin the osf further? I am respectful of your experience on this.

sam, i use his technique of rubbing in subsequent coats. It does not give you problems if the coats are thin and if you give decent time to dry, like 8 hours or more. At the worst, rubbing more osf on top of soft osf will result in a draggy cloth, streaks, dust, and a dull, uneven surface -not bubbles.

i hardly come out this strong on a topic, but i have had this exact experience when i started out with waterlox. Beating a dead horse alert: nix the ms. There may be other ways to apply the waterlox, but materials, not technique was the culprit here.

[Sam Murdoch]

Scott, the op is using waterlox original non voc, which i take to mean original sealer finish. This is already thinned and is the right wiping consistency out of the can. Thinning further is what i strongly believe got him in this pickle. Are you suggesting that he should thin the osf further? I am respectful of your experience on this.

sam, i use his technique of rubbing in subsequent coats. It does not give you problems if the coats are thin and if you give decent time to dry, like 8 hours or more. At the worst, rubbing more osf on top of soft osf will result in a draggy cloth, streaks, dust, and a dull, uneven surface -not bubbles.

i hardly come out this strong on a topic, but i have had this exact experience when i started out with waterlox. Beating a dead horse alert: nix the ms. There may be other ways to apply the waterlox, but materials, not technique was the culprit here.

Agree that MS is not a friend to Waterlox and as for wiping on subsequent coats I was only trying to emphasize that the first 2 coats that the OP writes were liberally applied with a brush may not have been sufficiently dry to withstand the rubbing out (rather than merely wiping on) additional coats.

Speculating on what might have gone wrong in someone else's process/situation is just that - speculating. I read now (below) in James's next post how long he waited between coats and that the "bubbles" had already popped (maybe I missed these details from the earlier read), anyway it surely sounds that the surface was contaminated early in the process. Now what - sand it off and start again wouldn't you say?

[Prashun Patel]

...Speculating on what might have gone wrong in someone else's process/situation is just that - speculating...

Oh, but isn't that the fun part. Arm chair quarterbacks of the world, UNITE!

[James Dudley]

Oh, but isn't that the fun part. Arm chair quarterbacks of the world, UNITE!

lol. Well, I'd love for any of you to come inspect in person. But at least I've learned about the concept...as confusing as it might be...that MS and Waterlox don't necessarily play nicely. And all was fine until after coat 3, which had 10% MS added to the waterlox. The next coat beaded up like crazy. So it makes sense that this was the genesis of the problem.

I'll keep you guys posted as I progress.

[Prashun Patel]

...this was the genesis of the problem...

Would you say, "She seems to have an invisible touch, yeah" of mineral spirits?

[James Dudley]

Would you say, "She seems to have an invisible touch, yeah" of mineral spirits?

Ahhhh hah aha NO

[Scott Holmes]

I expected the "Waterlox Original" to mean varnish not the Sealer/finish which is indeed already thinned. Non VOC? Not sure if that means old formula or the new one; which I have not used.

I re-read the OP and he said Waterlox Original not the low VOC so it's the old formula... Was it the Sealer Finish or the regular varnish? I assumed the regular varnish.

James (OP) which finish are you using?

[James Dudley]

Hey Scott,

This one:
http://www.waterlox.com/products-ite...er-finish.aspx

The original finish is the sealer/finish. They have that one, glossy, and satin, and then the low VOC version, and then satin and gloss oil-modified urethanes.
http://www.waterlox.com/products/

BTW, Waterlox considers the original finish a varnish.

http://www.waterlox.com/faqs/perform...shes-to-others

We view our Waterlox Original Tung oil finishes as varnishes, and while many make untrue product claims, Waterlox has never made any claims that we manufacture anything but a varnish. Our varnish is however a truly unique blend of Tung oil and resin that showcases the natural beauty of wood, providing lasting, durable protection.

[Scott Holmes]

I never said they were anything but varnish. Varnish thinned to can be wiped-on, e.g. wipe-on varnish. Usually about 50/50 mix with mineral spirits to regular varnish is about right for a wipe-on application. It's still varnish, as the additional thinner does not change the chemical properties of the finish.

The technique you used to apply it (you rubbed it in) is sometimes used for and oil/varnish blend, aka Danish Oil, application. The best way to apply an oil/varnish blend is to apply liberally, allow a few minutes to soak in, then buff or rub it dry.

That is NOT the correct process for a wipe-on varnish. After reading the posts and comments by you and others; I suspect something got on you project to cause the poor adhesion of the wipe-on varnish. Could be residue from the rag or a tack cloth, then, that would be my guess as the source of the contaminate on your surface.

You should be able to scuff sand (320) it and wipe-on another coat or two. Wipe it like the kid wipes the table.

[Kent A Bathurst]

After reading the posts and comments by you and others; I suspect something got on you project to cause the poor adhesion of the wipe-on varnish. Could be residue from the rag or a tack cloth, then, that would be my guess as the source of the contaminate on your surface.

Yeah - on that project of mine, something changed the relationship between next coat adhesion v surface tension, and surface tension won out, causing the next coat to retract from the table surface.

This looked similar. Plus, in its non-thinned state, the surface tension was [relatively] high - it did not want to flow.

My only guess was that on mine, I had not let the MS dry [used to pick up sanding dust]. Never tested this theory out, just made sure I never did that again - and never saw those results since.

[Mel Fulks]

Kent, I'm not a counseler but I'm guessing that both coats thought the other "smelled bad".

[Kent A Bathurst]

Kent, I'm not a counseler but I'm guessing that both coats thought the other "smelled bad".

Could be. All I know is that it ruined my day, and consumed all of my cuss words. I had to borrow some from a friend, in fact.

Sand it back, but don't cut thru the bottom coat or two. Start over. Not rocket science. Just elbow grease. And - annoying and very embarrasing.

[Prashun Patel]

I believe what you're seeing is minor incompatibility with Waterlox and Mineral Spirits. I've had this happen to me.
Wipe off the bubbly coat with ms if if hasn't yet dried. Buff it all off, then wait for the surface to dry. Don't worry about how it looks yet. You can lightly sand off any nibs or bubbles with 400g if you need to, but do it gently and wipe off any dust/mineral spirits thoroughly and again give it time for any residual ms to evaporate.

Try, then to wipe on the Original Sealer Finish again. You can (and should if you wipe) wipe it without thinning it with anything.

BTW, post some more pics. That color is very nice.