Last coat of Waterlox puddled up: what do I do now?

[Scott Holmes]

I expected the "Waterlox Original" to mean varnish not the Sealer/finish which is indeed already thinned. Non VOC? Not sure if that means old formula or the new one; which I have not used.

I re-read the OP and he said Waterlox Original not the low VOC so it's the old formula... Was it the Sealer Finish or the regular varnish? I assumed the regular varnish.

James (OP) which finish are you using?

[James Dudley]

Hey Scott,

This one:
http://www.waterlox.com/products-ite...er-finish.aspx

The original finish is the sealer/finish. They have that one, glossy, and satin, and then the low VOC version, and then satin and gloss oil-modified urethanes.
http://www.waterlox.com/products/

BTW, Waterlox considers the original finish a varnish.

http://www.waterlox.com/faqs/perform...shes-to-others

We view our Waterlox Original Tung oil finishes as varnishes, and while many make untrue product claims, Waterlox has never made any claims that we manufacture anything but a varnish. Our varnish is however a truly unique blend of Tung oil and resin that showcases the natural beauty of wood, providing lasting, durable protection.

[Scott Holmes]

I never said they were anything but varnish. Varnish thinned to can be wiped-on, e.g. wipe-on varnish. Usually about 50/50 mix with mineral spirits to regular varnish is about right for a wipe-on application. It's still varnish, as the additional thinner does not change the chemical properties of the finish.

The technique you used to apply it (you rubbed it in) is sometimes used for and oil/varnish blend, aka Danish Oil, application. The best way to apply an oil/varnish blend is to apply liberally, allow a few minutes to soak in, then buff or rub it dry.

That is NOT the correct process for a wipe-on varnish. After reading the posts and comments by you and others; I suspect something got on you project to cause the poor adhesion of the wipe-on varnish. Could be residue from the rag or a tack cloth, then, that would be my guess as the source of the contaminate on your surface.

You should be able to scuff sand (320) it and wipe-on another coat or two. Wipe it like the kid wipes the table.

[Kent A Bathurst]

After reading the posts and comments by you and others; I suspect something got on you project to cause the poor adhesion of the wipe-on varnish. Could be residue from the rag or a tack cloth, then, that would be my guess as the source of the contaminate on your surface.

Yeah - on that project of mine, something changed the relationship between next coat adhesion v surface tension, and surface tension won out, causing the next coat to retract from the table surface.

This looked similar. Plus, in its non-thinned state, the surface tension was [relatively] high - it did not want to flow.

My only guess was that on mine, I had not let the MS dry [used to pick up sanding dust]. Never tested this theory out, just made sure I never did that again - and never saw those results since.

[Mel Fulks]

Kent, I'm not a counseler but I'm guessing that both coats thought the other "smelled bad".

[Kent A Bathurst]

Kent, I'm not a counseler but I'm guessing that both coats thought the other "smelled bad".

Could be. All I know is that it ruined my day, and consumed all of my cuss words. I had to borrow some from a friend, in fact.

Sand it back, but don't cut thru the bottom coat or two. Start over. Not rocket science. Just elbow grease. And - annoying and very embarrasing.

[James Dudley]

What grit would you guys use to sand back?

[Scott Holmes]

320 with a foam pad. I normally use 5" ROS disc on a hand pad similar to this one:

[James Dudley]

Excellent. Thank you. I'll post progress as it happens!

[James Dudley]

Sanded with 320 to smooth. Looked good.

Vacuumed.

Wiped with a clean rag wetted with denatured alcohol. Vacuumed again. Waited for the DNA to flash off. Wiped with a clean rag to check. No dust. Clean.

Waited another 30 just to be sure.

Checked again with a rag. No dust

Wiped on a thin coat like a kid wiping a table. Just enough to wet it. No heavy coat. No puddling or pulling back. Went on just fine.

Got all three pieces done.

Looked pretty dry fairly fast. How long do I wait between wipe on coats?

Do I do another tonight? Applied the first at 2:30.

Or do I wait to tomorrow? Plan to NOT sand between coats.

[Prashun Patel]

There is no harm in waiting overnight. In some cases you can recoat within a few hours. The issue I have is that if it's not fully dry, it will provide some tack or drag on the cloth, preventing you from moving it around nice and smooth and quick.

So, I now always resist the urge to recoat too quickly and wait overnight. I'd add my next coat in the AM tomorrow and then the final before I go to bed tomorrow night.

[Kent A Bathurst]

OK.

So - You're not sure exactly what you did wrong, but you know fer sure you don't ever want to do it again.

For wipe-on @ 50/50, wait 1 hour between coats. No sanding needed. Good for 3 coats.

If you want a 4th, you need to wait 24 hours, and sand.

Remember - 3 wipe-on = 1 brush on in terms of building film thickness.

I don't recall what this piece is going to be, and I understand you just want to get out as painlessly as you can. Having said that - - -

If it is a high-use surface [dining table, kitchen counter, stuff like that] you need at least 4 brush-on, or equivalent # of wipe-on. Me - I generally go for 4 brush-on + 2 wipe on. Do what you want, of course.

Glad the wind has shifted to your back. Good luck. Post photos of finished project, please.

[James Dudley]

Kent: you got it exactly right . As long as I don't do what I did, whatever that was, I'll be good.

lol

My guess based on the mentions here are that (a) the 3rd coat, which was a wipe-on with 10% added MS, introduced some sort of issue that appeared when I tried to wipe the 4th coat. And then (b) I also think that the 3rd coat, and maybe the 4th coat were wiped on way too heavily. So it was either the MS contamination that people have reported, or the 3rd coat wasn't fully dry when I applied the 4th.

Anyhoo....I'm in no rush. So while some suggest a few quick coats (1-2 hrs between), I'm going to err on the side of safety and apply the next coat tomorrow, after ensuring the coat I applied today is way dry.

If it dries well enough, maybe another as suggested later tomorrow.

This is a kitchen island. Effectively the major countertop space in the kitchen. So it'll get a lot of use, but hopefully not TOO much abuse! The first two coats were brushed on quite liberally. Then the two liberal wiped coats that were pretty much sanded off. I'll do as many wiped coats as necessary, even if it takes a while. I don't mind. I just want to avoid the same issue again. And it only takes a few minutes to wipe on a coat.

I assume I need a fresh rag for each coat. I'll have to cut them down smaller to avoid waste. The one I just used was maybe a little too big. Just means wasting more rag and soaking up more finish (which ain't cheap).

Thanks for all the help guys. Hoping I've hit the final snag! (famous last words)

I'll definitely post pics once finishing is done.

I may even dig up my drawings for the concept.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I assume I need a fresh rag for each coat. I'll have to cut them down smaller to avoid waste. The one I just used was maybe a little too big. Just means wasting more rag and soaking up more finish (which ain't cheap).

No-no-no-no-no..................

For wipe-on coats, go to the BORG and get a roll of Scott Blue Shop Towels. Look like blue paper towels, but they are lint-free, and texture-free. Wouldn't seem like it, but they are MUCH preferred over cotton rags or whatever. Absolutely perfect for wipe-on varnish.

[James Dudley]

No-no-no-no-no..................

For wipe-on coats, go to the BORG and get a roll of Scott Blue Shop Towels. Look like blue paper towels, but they are lint-free, and texture-free. Wouldn't seem like it, but they are MUCH preferred over cotton rags or whatever. Absolutely perfect for wipe-on varnish.

Ahhh, perfect. Cool. Will do for subsequent coats.

I bought a bag of t-shirt type cotton towels. Totally lint-free, but I'm sure way less economical than the shop towels.

Thanks!