Bought some Disstons...need some help!

[Richard Wolgemuth]

Kim, thanks for the wisdom. I would certainly not try hammering on these saws. Perhaps a yard sale bargain with no value, but these will most likely get sent to someone who knows much more than I. I am primarily concerned with preserving these for years of use. I am 6' 0" and so I will have to give the saw a try and see how it feels. Thanks!

[Richard Wolgemuth]

Not to beat a dead horse but can anyone tell me anything about a Disston Acme 120, especially in terms of sharpening them? As I understand one needs a special file??? Can one be sharpened in the traditional manner, will that destroy any value, etc. ???????

[Jim Koepke]

Not to beat a dead horse but can anyone tell me anything about a Disston Acme 120, especially in terms of sharpening them? As I understand one needs a special file??? Can one be sharpened in the traditional manner, will that destroy any value, etc. ???????

Here is a site that should help with the Acme 120:

http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/acmepage.html

Here is one with information on everything else you will want to know about sharpening:

http://www.vintagesaws.com/cgi-bin/f...y/library.html

jtk

[Mike Allen1010]

The ACME 120 was made to be used with no set in "well seasoned, dry timber". The saw plate has an extreme amount of taper ground into it (thinner at the top line, thicker at tooth line) to accommodate this design. Typically used by very experienced cabinet makers for final finish cuts. Very rare and excellent users.

The original tooth geometry is unique - taller teeth, narrower from front to back. This helps clear the kerff in the absence off typical set. These work fine with typical tooth geometry, which is helpful as the only saw MD who does the original geometry is the master Daryl Weir. At one time he had a video on his site "Old saws restored", showing the 120 in action - pretty amazing.

Cheers, Mike

[Stew Denton]

Richard, You mention possibly buying a premium saw just to have your hands on a Cadillac. With all due respect, in my view you already have a better saw than any made currently, with the possible exception of a very limited number of custom saw makers, of which I think there is one on this board.

Beyond that, in my view the D8 is a premium saw, by todays standards, not up to the #12s, but still very good indeed and likely as good as any premium saw made today, again with the exception of the top custom makers, and you can find the D8s at a WHOLE lot less money.

Beyond even that, the "best quality"saw that you find at a typical GOOD lumber yard, one that caters to good professional carpenters, will likely not be nearly as good as the old Disstons, and further I would guess that any saw that you would find at a big box store will not even remotely approach the old Disstons.

To get a saw as good as the D8, expect to part with a pretty good chunk of change. It will be enough to buy several old D8s.

What I am saying is that I don't think any of the premium saws on the market today are as good as your #12 and probably no better than the D8s. I wouldn't buy any of them, again with the possible exception of the top custom makers, because, except for a new appearance you aren't going to gain anything.

There is a reason that the guys on the Neander Haven like the old Stanley planes, the old chisels of various makers, and the old Disston saws, and it is the same reason (that and collectors) that these same tools, if in good shape, sell for premium prices on Ebay...they sell for much more than their later counterparts. From what I have seen of the common planes, chisels, and saws, some of the best ever made were made between 1900 and 1930, and in some cases to the start of WW2.

Stew

[Richard Wolgemuth]

I hear you Stew. And I am a firm believer in the older is usually better mentality. When I said "Cadillac" I was referring to the custom saws you were talking about. Frankly, some of them are just beautiful. But I am a pragmatist and am unbelievably excited about the saws that I have found. I am really excited to get them restored sharpened and to work.

[Jim Matthews]

The #12 is Disston's pre-1900 top of the line and IMHO, among best saws ever produced. The pitting is 100% cosmetic -won't effect functionality at all. I agree with Stew; teeth need re-profiling which is bigger job than just sharpening. You need to establish the desired geometry , spacing and set. Because of the quality/potential of #12 and the amount of work you need, you probably don't want to make this your first saw to sharpen.

All the best, Mike

I own one of Mike's saws.
I intend to be buried with it,
if I don't wear it out in my lifetime.

He's too modest to mention it,
but he really does know what he's about.

He's also adept at rehabilitating saws like these.
(* hint *)

[Jim Matthews]

I hear you Stew. And I am a firm believer in the older is usually better mentality.

I wouldn't go that far.
These were mass produced, but by skilled tradesman.

Today's saw makers are every bit their equal.

It's their time that costs.

When you've got these sorted out,
buy a nice backsaw from our very own Ron Bontz.

His saws will sing, along with the old ladies you've brought home.

[Stew Denton]

Jim,

Good point, and I believe others have mentioned the work that Mike does. If I ever have the blessing of getting a #12 like Richard found, that needs some work, I would very likely send it to Mike. You don't find a saw like a #12 at a reasonable price very often, so if I ever do, I am not going to risk fooling with it myself. I have worked on my saws that are cheaper, but wouldn't take a chance with a #12.

In my view, a #12, or a saw like Mike or Ron make is a tool to enjoy for a lifetime.

Stew

[Jim Koepke]

I hear you Stew. And I am a firm believer in the older is usually better mentality.

My feeling is the older tools can mount a final performance indistinguishable from the performance of the best new tools of today.

Today we have improvements in metallurgy. There can be tighter tolerances in the manufacturing process. Rob Lee has included some new ideas in the making of hand planes.

When the dovetail is cut or the last shaving is made there really isn't any noticeable difference in the end product.

The cost of our new tools is likely about the same, hour for hour in wages, as it was to our forefathers.

Kind of funny when you think of it. That chisel your great grandfather bought in 1900 is today considered a bargain at 10 or 20 times what they paid for it new.

The fit and finish of a new saw from a maker like Ron Bontz is something anyone would be proud to own.

Sometimes the pride one has in their tools does translate into the quality of their craftsmanship.

In my own experience the pride of using a tool of my own salvage and restoration makes me want to do better.

One of the more valuable experiences from going to a tool event was using a saw one of the vendors had. He allowed me to make a few trial cuts with it. The value for me was it felt like one of my own saws that had just been sharpened. It let me know my saw sharpening skills were improving.

After all this rambling my point to Richard is this:

If you attempt to sharpen either of these saws or even a cheaper model found at The Restore or yard sale you will find it will likely work better than it did before you started.

After a while you may try a new saw from an expert maker and find it really doesn't cut better than what you have. At that point you may find you are only paying for the beauty of the fit and finish of a new tool. Sometimes that is enough reason to do it.

Not sure if we all do it, but I have.

jtk