Opinion of the Powermatic 3 or 5 hp shaper please

[Rod Sheridan]

There is no room in my 21' x 27' shop for multiple shapers. The original question was intended to determine if the PM shaper was a decent machine or a 650 lb hunk of crap.
No one has called it crap. This is comforting. And the difference between 3 and 5 horses was $200, not enough to even think about.
The inherent danger in shaper use is a real concern for me. The local cabinetmaker that has been at it since the early 70's lost an entire finger about 5 years ago to one of his shapers. That was a bit sobering (His only advice concerning a shaper purchase was 1 1/4" spindle and dont bother with 3 horse, get at least 5). I want to know everything there is to know about shaper safety practices before I think about plugging it in. Any feedback in this regard would be greatly appreciated.

Hi, safety is important.

The only up to date book I've found on shapers is

The Spindle Molder Handbookhttp://www.amazon.ca/Spindle-Moulder.../dp/0854421505

The other books I've purchased have been decades out of date on cutters and machine safety issues.

Regards, Rod.


The only up to date book on s

[Jim Hager]

Congratulations on your first shaper, you will love it. I too started out using a rt to build doors and when I bought my first shaper I really learned what they were all about. I now own 5 each dedicated to an individual purpose. Three of them are imports, one a Grizzly and a Reliant, the other an Enlon with a sliding table. The other 2 are Delta's. I raise panels and do stick on the deltas with the Enlon doing my cope cut, the Reliant doing the door edge after assembly and the Grizzly doing the trim cut to make arched panels. I have three of them equipped with power feeders for making stick, door edges and panels. The other two are hand fed. A 3hp has plenty of power for running door parts using the Freeborn 3/4" bore cutters. I've made thousands of doors now with those cutters and have never had any problems with power. My advice on cutters is get good ones. I've bought cheaper stuff than I use and they just don't do the job. Freeborn is a great place to look for cutters, they have the larger bore cutters that I'd love to have if I had large spindles for all my shapers. The larger the tool diameter the better the cut will be.

As far as safety goes, RESPECT the shaper. Learn it's functions and follow established practices. Any time you do any freehand shaping be certain to use the starter pin. I have one of mine set up to do pattern shaping and it does have a starter in that never leaves the table. It does not have a fence attached but I do have dust collection rigged up. If you are running only one shaper be very mindful of the direction the cutter has to turn and the direction the material has to be fed. The shaper will snatch a piece out of your hand in an instant if climb fed. If you have the means I'd highly suggest a power feeder. I use the Delta 1/4 hp feeder and some I have are Grizzly. I see no difference in the two brands other than color. When you can use a feeder, please do. Running stick, door edges and square raised panels are all operations that you can use a feeder. Making cope cuts should be done with a sled. Either make or purchase one. My enlon shaper has a sliding table to run cope so I don't use a sled but have in the past. I'd recommend looking at some of the Weaver fixtures for making doors and see if there are some things there you can fit into the budget. While there look at their fixture for making door arches and panels. They are a very necessary part of my methods of making doors. Weaver sells the shapers too but they also provide lots of handy dodads for making doors besides the shaper. You'll also want to get a good collection of follower bearings for doing pattern shaping. Pretty much one for every cutter diameter you have. Also pick up a supply of thin shims for setting the height on your cope and stick cutters. A large key to a good shaper is the fence. My delta shapers have a great fence. Easy to adjust in almost every way. Import shapers have notoriously poor fences, it's good you ordered the PM. I've never used a pm shaper so I don't really know about it's fence.

Good luck to you. Man it's been a long time since I've posted anything on the Creek. I read a bit everyday but seldom post anything. Maybe some of this will help.

[Dan Chouinard]

Being able to use a feeder was the main reason i wanted a shaper. I am 52. Have had nerve injuries in left hand, tennis elbow on left, nerve damage with muscle atrophy in right shoulder. Oh, and the carpal tunnel on both wrist. The right shoulder gives me the most trouble as it fatigues very quickly. I can still crank out door parts with my jessum router table. Made parts for and glued up 18 doors and drawer fronts in 8 hrs recently. I was happy with that. Look forward to letting the feeder push stiles thru the machine however.
Thanks for the safety feedback guys, especially Peter. Never liked cutting narrow rails. Shop made sled with toggle clamps served well until I learned to keep rails 5 1/2" wide and then rip in half on table saw after the ends where cut. Quicker and safer.
Any other thumbs up for the book Rod recommended?

[Justin Ludwig]

I read Lonnie's Shaper handbook. It was dismal at best IMO. While in the hospital with our newborn daughter in November, I read "Shaper Handbook". It was a lot better, but provided no revelations for my current understanding of wood work in general. I haven't read the book Rod mentioned.

Biggest mistake I've made with my shaper was buying too small a power feeder (and a grizzly power feeder), and not following Peter's advice of double checking everything before hitting the "on" switch. Want to see a grown man's butt pucker? Feed a stile into a power feeder with a 4" cutter spinning at 8k and see the power feeder move because I didn't tighten the horizontal swivel. I got lucky it hit the fence before the brand new Freeborn cutter.

[Bill ThompsonNM]

+1 for Rod's book recommendation.

[Michael W. Clark]

Congratulations Dan,
I'm a hobbyist, but got a 5hp Delta with 1-1/4" spindle, used. I got frustrated with the router table for door panels. I kept starting and stopping and you could see the ripples after the finish went on.
I wanted the 1-1/4" spindle so all my cutters would work if I ever got a larger shaper. I bought a 1HP Univer feeder off Ebay. That thing is a beast! I have it mounted on the little Delta and it looks like the feeder dwarfs it! Your PM is a larger top, so that size feeder may look more at home. I will say that it locks very securely. I can lock it, then cannot budge it.

I would be interested to know what you end up with on rail and stile cutters. I have some panel cutters that came with the shaper, but I need look at rail and stile cutters when the next project comes up.

Mike

[Randy Henry]

Dan, I have the PM-2700. Been a very good machine for me. Only issue I had, was the set screw on the motor pulley came out twice. I would suggest taking it out, and putting blue lock-tite on it before using it. Really easy to get to, and just insurance for later. The Weaver tools/jigs are fine, but I use the Weaver knock off jigs from Ballew Saw and Tool in Springfield, MO. The coping jig, and the self centering jigs/templates that you see on the Weaver site, you can get at Ballew for a lot cheaper, and just as good in quality. I have t-tracks with scales mounted on each end of the shaper, which my outboard fence goes into. This works great when cutting the profiles, and with the built in tape measure, it sets up fast. With the digital readout on the shaper, I always use the same set-up with the spacers, and keep the sample pieces, with the scale setting wrote on them. To achieve this repeatedly, always take the spindle all the way down, reset the reading to "0", then crank it up to the desired reading. It isn't as fast as having dedicated machines, but I can re-tool the shaper and go between cuts pretty fast. I also have the 4 wheel PM power feed. It is invaluable for the shaper. Shapers shouldn't be sold without them. Since I climb cut on some cuts, and to prevent me from accidentally putting a piece of wood in from the wrong way, I religiously put the forward/reverse switch in the "Neutral" position after each cut operation. It makes me think it out before hitting the on switch. As far as cutters, almost all my cutters are Freeborn or Byrd. I haven't ventured into the insert cutters yet. All of my regular cutters are still in good shape, so it will be a while before I replace them. When I do, I will look at the inserts. Lots of good information here about them. Lastly, about the only time the shaper has issues, is when I forget to wax the table. Things will go south for you if you don't keep it waxed, I know this from experience...

[Dan Chouinard]

I clearly have plenty of homework to do in regards to the shaper. Climb cut? gotta look that up. What is the purpose of reversing the motor? And so on....

Will be buying the optional 1/2" router bit collet to get started with the door making sets that I already own.

[Mark Bolton]

I clearly have plenty of homework to do in regards to the shaper. Climb cut? gotta look that up. What is the purpose of reversing the motor? And so on....

Will be buying the optional 1/2" router bit collet to get started with the door making sets that I already own.

Climb cutting is basically feeding in "the wrong" direction which can really help with stubborn tearout in some woods and with small cutters. It think you will want to keep your router table handy because you will likely be very very disappointed in the your router bits performance in the shaper. The speeds are just too low.

[Justin Ludwig]

Ask ask and ask some more. Randy is right about calling Ballew Saw and Tool in Springfield. Ask for Jack. Their jigs are half the cost of the weaver. I build my own basing my designs off of Weaver and the Door Store. You can't find Ballew's jigs online unless you download their catalog. http://www.ballewsawandtool.com/catalog/ is the Parent directory to the catalogs of everything they sell.

If you want information from the horse's mouth on cutters, call Doyle at Freeborn or email their "sales" address. Extremely helpful.

Search door posts on hear made by JR Rutter. Or shoot him a PM. He's an extremely helpful and knowledgeable fellow. I developed all my set ups base off of posts I've read in this forum. From there, I tweak to my own use.

[Randy Henry]

I clearly have plenty of homework to do in regards to the shaper. Climb cut? gotta look that up. What is the purpose of reversing the motor? And so on....

Will be buying the optional 1/2" router bit collet to get started with the door making sets that I already own.

On reversing the motor, it's as Justin said, plus, when I bought my panel cutters, I just bought the standard one, where orientation is good side up (wood), and feed right to left. But I like running good side down, to keep the reveal the same, so that means I had to turn the cutters upside down, which means the cutter needs to be spun in reverse. With all that, it's easy to forget, so I just put it in neutral, so I have to think about it before turning it on.

[Randy Henry]

Dan, here are a few pics.

The coping jig from Ballew, and you will see the reference block attached to the fence. That is where I butt my piece to before I run it through.

The outboard fence is a piece of flat aluminum, 1/4" x 2 1//2". I use it primarily to run the profiles. I rough cut all my rails/stiles to 2-9/16", then set the outboard fence to 2-1/2", and that is my final dimension on the widths of all the stiles and rails.

The auxiliary fence is bolted to the regular fence. I stole this idea from J.R. Rutter. What it does is keep the work piece from getting sucked into the wide opening from the regular fence when using the large panel raising cutter. I just used aluminum angle on the bottom of a piece of oak. There was some time dialing it in to fit between the main cutter and the back cutter, but once it was completed, it works great.


IMG_0111.JPGIMG_0110.JPGIMG_0112.JPGIMG_0113.JPG

[Dan Chouinard]

Ahhh, upside down cutters, reverse motor. The tips just keep rolling in. You guys are great.

[Dan Chouinard]

Finally had time to un-crate the shaper yesterday. Holy moses its a beast. Had just knifed the cardboard open when a friend stopped by shop for a visit. I wanted to lighten the machine before trying to move it and he suggested we unbolt and remove table top. Just 6 bolt, great. Removed bolts and attempted to lift top off machine only to discover that internals where also fixed to the top. Aborted that idea, lowered the casters and rolled machine off pallet and down make-shift ramp to shop floor. Easy beans rolling machine to desired location.
My concern is that the failed attempt to remove the top did some sort of damage/misalignment to the internals. Since I am a first time shaper owner not sure if this is a legit concern. What should I look for before proceeding?

[Bill Orbine]

Pretty much everything except electronics is bolted to under the table top. Motor and quill/spindle. You should be OK. At best, when bolting the table back down, align it with the paint lines (if any) that you broke when attempting to remove the top. Finally, you didn't affect the "precision" of the machine like it is with table saws (aligning top slot w/ blade).