introduction , new turner & lots o question's

[Michael J Evans]

Hi all,
been browsing the forum's a few week's getting all the good info and thought i'd jump in.
been turning ~ 4-5 weeks or so , i have a little 10x18 harbor freight lathe i got 11/2yrs ago and the el cheapo $10 chisel's for another hobby and thought what the hell i better put this thing to use lol... well with the holidays being so good i got my self the benjamins best 8 piece set and a nova G3 chuck and cut up a few green piece's of oak/fir from the family and since been watchin the shavings fly.i've made a couple real small bowls and had one heck 0f a catch that bent my harbor freight scraper into almost a 90 deg , trying to cut end grain in dry oak about 4" deep.anyway'si have a couple quick question's maybe someone can help me out with.
1.) i've been using my spindle roughing gouge to get the outside of my bowl round from square and to run true before i start attacking with the bowl gouge.... the blanks seem to run true( or maybe im not paying enough attention) when it's still just a round bowl blank but as soon as i start shaping the foot and trying to turn the outside to shape with my bowl gouge as im going around the outside i get horrible chatter..... it's like im trying to hold a jackhammer..... no joke. I can't tell if my headstock/ spindle? hope that the right terminology is running perfectly true. it seem's like the headstock wheel (opposite of the chuck) isn't perfectly true but my chuck run's trueish .... hopefully someone can enlighten me and hopefully its my technique and not my lathe? another little bit of info it happen's with both my woodworm screw and when i use a faceplate.

2.) can anyone recommend a general all around good finish that doesn't require 100 steps and a secret prayer. i know just mineral oil for eating utensil's / bowls. but how about for other project's i've tried using google but cant find a general all round finish thats decent. everyone seem's to have a different method and 10 different way's to apply it. i realize not one size fit's all but after my recent purchases i dont have alot of cash to spend on a bunch of finishes.

thanks in advance,
Michael

[Wes Ramsey]

Welcome Michael! I'm a fellow noob as well, but I've got about a year under my belt and most of my mistakes are still fresh in mind. I've got the same set of gouges and they will serve you well while you're learning. If you bent a tool it is likely that you're hanging it too far out over the tool rest. 4" is fine for some tools, but the relatively short handle on the BB tools doesn't give you the support you need for hollowing very deep. Not that you can't do it, but great care are light cuts are required. Generally speaking you should always aim to rub the bevel of the tool on the wood and your tool rest should be adjusted so you are cutting pretty close to the center line. I will tell you from recent experience - it is certainly possible to muscle your way through a project, but proper form will get you there so much easier, faster, and with better results. Youtube is a good resource to watch some how-tos to begin learning, but NOTHING beats 1-on-1 teaching. Find a local club and learn from a proper mentor.

Just as important as good form is a way to sharpen your tools. It can be done by hand, but not well. A mentor can show you how to sharpen them, but you'll eventually need to invest in a sharpening system.

As for finish, well, I've spent more on finishing products in the last year than I have on tools. They all work, they're all pretty, and they all have different strengths and weaknesses. Polyurethane is somewhat forgiving of sanding marks and imperfections in surface prep but unforgiving of application issues. Lacquer seems to magnify surface imperfections, but is relatively easy to apply. Friction finishes look nice, but don't last long. Keep it simple for starters - wax and oil - until you're ready to tackle 'shiny'.

Best of luck!

[Michelle Rich]

tool presentation is your bugaboo..go to Youtube and watch the 1/2 a zillion videos showing folks making things. Finishes? There must be a thousand posts about finishing here on Sawmill..a search would keep you reading until your eyes fall out.

[Tim Rinehart]

Search out Beaver State Woodturners in Eugene for someone to give you some one on one. That is the safest thing to do. Never use a spindle roughing gouge for anything besides roughing a spindle blank, they can't take the forces and just aren't designed for end grain or bowl work, in general.
Another resource in Eugene is Wooden Apple Woodturning, found them in a search on Springfield Woodturning. They are a Woodturners supply store and may even hold classes, better yet.
If you get the fundamentals down on safe practices and proper sharpening techniques, you'll be hooked for life. If not, you might end up frustrated or hurt. Be safe and have fun...its a wonderful craft to learn.

[Thom Sturgill]

First, Welcome to Sawmill Creek!

Be aware that not all tools are equal. Harbor Freight tools especially. There have been a few recent threads about problems with their tools not being hardened except at the tip and sometimes not at all. That being said:

1) Bowls are normally turned 'face grain' meaning the growth direction of the tree was side-to-side with relation to how the piece was mounted and not 'spindle orientation' with the grain running the length of the bed. NEVER USE A Spindle Roughing Gouge in facegrain orientation. They are designed strictly for spindle orientation. You can use a bowl gouge to round the piece. ther are several good you-tube videos on mounting bowls. I can recommend both Lyle Jameison's video and Robo Hippy's.

2) Way too controversial - Mineral oil never hardens and never goes rancid, and is almost never used in the turning community. Walnut Oil (not from the grocery store) is a better choice IMHO for a soft finish, but can be built up and buffed. It is one of three oils that do harden, the others being Linseed and Tung. Olive oil is good for utinsils that get cleaned and can be easily refreshed. OO can take many months to go rancid, but does not harden.

While general concensus seems to be that buying cheap tools is a good way to learn, I disagree. When you have a tool that will not take and keep an edge, how do you know that you have ground it properly? This came to mind a couple of years ago when I took a course in ornament making a brought some of my own tools, including a HF spindle gouge that had worked well for me. Unknowingly, I had just sharpened past the point where it was hardened. I was having trouble getting it sharp and the instructor tried and could not get it sharp either. We tested the tool with a file and found that there was no hardening left in the tool.

When you consider that I only used about 1/2" to 3/4" of the tool trying different grinds, it was no bargain compared to a good brand with 6" of usable flute.

[Reed Gray]

Beaver State Woodturners meet the 4th Thursday of the month, 6 o'clock at the Woodcraft store in the Delta Shopping center, and is open to any one. Wooden Apple Woodturning is a business, and Rudy sold me my first lathe many years ago. He turns, but doesn't sell supplies. I am on the mentor list for the club. Woodcraft does have classes and tools. Steve Woods is one of the instructors who I knew many years ago when we both flew Hang Gliders. They also sell a number of finishes, including my favorite, the Doctor's Woodshop oils. I prefer them for bowls. You can go to You Tube and check out my videos if you type in robo hippy, my alias for years..... The spindle roughing gouge is not a good tool for roughing out bowls. Sharp tools first...

robo hippy

[Rick Fisher]

This video helped me .. it would probably help you too . Welcome

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOhHeyoZLay

[Michael J Evans]

wow thanks for the welcome's & reply's , im looking forward to to this journey quite a bit. i should've clarified a little bit in my first post that i have watched prob dozen video's or so and knew that the spindle roughing gouge wasnt for end grain work or bowl work at all,im just hard headed sometime's and like to see for myself.... but honestly i figured just from taking the blank from octagon shape to round with the tool rest within 3/4" of the blank it was the most efficient way.i did do a couple of my bowl totally with the bowl gouge but thought maybe the extreme chatter i was talking about was either my lathe or cutting the corners off when rough shaping, turn;s out it just my technique.
i have a homemade wolverine sharpening system i had a buddy weld out of 1" square hollow steel stock and 3/4" square stock to slide inside of it with angle iron welded on the end of the 3/4" in a vee shape to hold the end of my tools , and then made a skew grind attachment also. we drilled a hole in the 1" stock and welded a nut on the hole to put a bolt in to lock it in place.i still have yet to make the vari-grind jig for my bowl gougle, just been free handing that.
I will look into the club @ woodcraft , 1 on 1 instruction is 1000 times better than video's & pick up some of that finish next time im their.
it's amazing how much their is to learn in this , and the crazy thing's people can make, i mostly interested in bowl's right now but am hoping to start doing some lidded boxes soon , but ever since i had that bad catch in the small piece of oak im gonna hold off till i get a little better with my tools.
another question i was gonna ask would their be much of a benefit of making a longer handle for my bowl gouge considering the small size of my lathe, currently my handle are only ~ 10" long.
Thanks again

[Reed Gray]

Tool handle length depends in part on how far you are trying to hang out off the tool rest before you move it, and how big the diameter of your tool is. Most of my 5/8 inch bowl gouges have handles on them about 16 inches long. My smaller ones are a lot shorter. With the 5/8 inch gouge, I can hang off the tool rest for heavy roughing for maybe 3 to 4 inches, and 4 inches or so for fine finish cuts. I might be able to hand out more, but it works a lot better to move the tool rest. With a 1/4 inch diameter bowl gouge, I don't go more than an inch. You can't take heavy cuts with one that small, but if you go more than 1 inch, the steel starts to flex and vibrate.

robo hippy

[Michael J Evans]

Thanks reed, I also thought it may be a fun project to do, but thinking about it I'm afraid my tool handle might hit my lathe bed if I try to cut from the inside out with the tool away from my body,maybe for my next gouge I buy...

[Reed Gray]

You can hold your gouges level. You don't have to hold them handle down. Hope to see you at the next meeting.

robo hippy

[Ron Rutter]

Michael. Are you trying to round your blank by going in at 90 degrees from the bed? If so, wrong way! You should be working parallel to the bed. Ron.

[Michael J Evans]

Lol ,Actually I tried both going in 90 with the roughing gouge and also correctly starting at the bottom and going parallel. that bring up another question, do I have to start at the foot and shape that way or can I start at the back / bottom edge an actually just cut it round first and then go back and do the foot and shaping?

[Michael Mills]

Here is a group of videos by Stuart Batty. Some may not be appropriate at this time but I would recommend the three on Stance; since you have a G3 the three on chucks, recesses, and tenons; and the ones on tool overhang. Each one about 10-15 minutes in great detail.
http://vimeo.com/woodturning/videos/...rmat:thumbnail

Here is a video on how much force it should take to make a cut from Lyle Jamieson. Do not try the two finger method! I do not like that the tool rest is parallel with the bed as this puts the turner in the direct line of fire given a dismount. I normally start with the rest 45* to the bed taking off the corner as this puts me out of the danger zone for the most part. This starts getting it round as well as shaping the curve.
You will notice that stance is an important aspect although not discussed in detail as in Batty's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X06EjQhDROk

[Tom Borener]

Hey Michael, Reed's right, come out to the Beaver State meeting next week (the 22nd). We are covering natural edge bowls this month, and have another bowl demo scheduled for March on twice turned bowls. I started going there about 10 years ago, and it really made a difference in my learning curve, just being able to sit and watch it being done, and asking questions in the moment. And it is a real nice bunch of guys, most of whom will help out with anythiing you need.