Brand New and Overwhelmed with Powertool Options

[Peter Aeschliman]

I changed the layout of the floor plan. It is now going to be approx 22X28 with 9' ceilings. Remember that raw materials don't have to be stored in that space and neither. It seems like I should go with a really high quality J/P at this point. FYI I just bought a crapload of Festool stuff. Track saw, 2 routers, 2 sanders, MFT table, Domino etc, dust extractor. So, for dust collection it looks like I will need it for my table saw, J/P combo and ????.

The powermatic stuff is on sale right now, should I be looking at their dust collection systems or someone else like Oneida?

Holy smokes. I like the cut of your jib! You're wasting no time. There's a lot to know about dust collection, so do your research. The hardcore dust collection nuts around here typically go with Clear Vue cyclones. Google Bill Pentz and prepare to spend 10 hours reading!

As for the table saw... Look really hard at the European sliding table saws. It took me a few years into my hobby before I understood what all of the fuss was about regarding sliding table saws. But now I really wish I had one! I have a sawstop with a sliding table attachment, which is great... But it's just not as good as a Euro slider in terms of function imho.

[Marty Tippin]

If you can afford all that Festool stuff, you can probably afford the Hammer combo machine and an Oneida cyclone.

Not sure why you're worrying about nickles and dimes when you're dropping Benjamins like they're going out of style...

[John Sanford]

I changed the layout of the floor plan. It is now going to be approx 22X28 with 9' ceilings. Remember that raw materials don't have to be stored in that space and neither. It seems like I should go with a really high quality J/P at this point. FYI I just bought a crapload of Festool stuff. Track saw, 2 routers, 2 sanders, MFT table, Domino etc, dust extractor. So, for dust collection it looks like I will need it for my table saw, J/P combo and ????.

The powermatic stuff is on sale right now, should I be looking at their dust collection systems or someone else like Oneida?

Go cyclonic. Oneida or Clear Vue. Before you get your system, decide on the size planer you're going to get. The planer and, if you truly go down the termite hole, drum/wide belt sander are going to be the tools that define your dust collection needs. Any dust collector that can handle those two will easily handle everything else in your shop, but things don't go the other way.

[glenn bradley]

to deal with that plague of locusts.

What a great visual! I am going to be hearing that in my head every time I see the chips flying from now on .

As to whether to go with a cyclone or not, this depends on your exhaust scenario. If you have to exhaust your return air into your work area, you need it well filtered. To keep fine filters clean, you need a cyclone. If you can exhaust outside you can get a lot more air movement for a lot less cost. Just remember that 1500 CFM of air going out of the shop needs 1500 CFM coming back in without resistance ;-) You local weather conditions may control this decision as well.

[Daniel McPherson]

If you have an Oneida system does it eliminate the need for one of the ceiling mounted square air cleaners or is that still needed for the dust the dust collection system didn't catch?

It seems like a 16" J/P is what I will end up getting. How much more do you spend when you go from Hammer to Minimax to Feldor and is it worth it?

[Jim Andrew]

I have a Grizzly 12 " jointer, G0609, with helical cutter, and a G0453 px 15" planer, both of which i enjoy using, reasonable priced machines, main complaints you read about are the hinges on combo machines limiting the machines accuracy. You might look at the Hammer K3 winner table saws. I have a 79x48, awesome saw. Would limit my search of cyclone units to 3hp or larger. And Ace Hardware stocks 26 gauge snaplock pipe , elbows, Y's etc, best prices in my area.

[Daniel McPherson]

I hadn't heard that about combo machines not being as accurate. How bad is it?

[Daniel McPherson]

So if my shop is 22X28' and I got a J/P would that space be to small to add a sliding table saw in the future? My understanding is the sliding TS requires a lot more room. Or is it pretty similar to what a cabinet saw requires when you factor infeed and out feed areas?

[Julie Moriarty]

I am starting out in woodworking but one thing I learned from welding(which I also do) is that I can't stand buying something then later wishing I hadn't cheaped out and settled for a tool that wasn't the best I could afford.

My shop is being built and will house my auto, welding/fab and woodworking. It is 40X64 in size but I haven't decided how much to devote to woodworking. I am thinking approx 20X20 for the woodworking portion. This space does NOT count wood storage as I can house the wood in an a separate area. In addition to run the table saw I can slide the door open that separates the wood area from the welding/fab so I can feed boards onto the table saw. I can also do glue ups and finishing in a different section of the shop in the welding/fab bay. All power is single phase.

So...
I have been trying to figure out what to do for a jointer and a planer. I believe (tell me if I am wrong) that I have enough room for separate tools. I have been googling for a week straight trying to figure out what to get. Hammer? Minimax? Powermatic? Jet? It is really overwhelming.

I want to get the best tools I can afford. I really don't want to have to go through the tool and double check everything to make sure it is square/flat (maybe there is no way getting around this). So what unit/units should I buy? What features should I make sure they have?

I would ask how much of a perfectionist you are? If you have little tolerance for tools not doing the job you expect them to do and your expectations are high, then you need better quality tools. As you gain woodworking experience, like anything else, you discover all sorts of little things about working with wood that you can only learn by doing. It's the same with woodworking tools. One may look the same as another but until you get them in your hand, you won't really know what suits you best.

My first wood tool was a Craftsman circular saw I bought in the 70's. It wasn't until about 10 years later I bought a B&D 8" portable table saw. I thought I had arrived. When I could afford something better, some 13 years later, I bought a 10" Delta contractor's saw. I still have that today but I'd prefer a good quality cabinet saw but I can't justify the expense now. But I don't skimp on saw blades and buy Forrest or the better Freud blades. Freud blades are great when they are really sharp but I find replacing them preferable because they keep coming out with new blades. The Forrest blades I send back to Forrest for sharpening. I have spares for the ones I use all the time. Good blades do a lot for not-so-good saws.

When I got more serious about woodworking, about 5-6 years ago, I realized the need for good hand tools. I went to Lie-Nielsen and have never been disappointed. And I'm one of those perfectionists who most people can't understand. I have a full set of L-N chisels, including mortise chisels, and 8 of their block and bench planes and a few specialty planes. All purchases I have never regretted. It's just a pleasure working with them.

I had a 5" Bosch RO sander for about 20 years but when I found myself sanding more and more, I took a chance on Festool and purchased a RO sander and CT-26 dust collector. That turned out to be the best decision I had made to date. I now own three other Festool sanders and I can justify the cost because the dust collection is so efficient my health benefits from it. Festool is expensive but their tools work perfectly. The only complaint I've ever heard about Festool is the price.

When I needed some rasps for shaping guitar necks, I went to Auriou. I had Nicholson and a few other brands but the Auriou rasps blew them away. I don't even use the other rasps anymore. You wouldn't think it makes that much difference being hand stitched, but it does.

These are all tools I love to pick up and use. They keep me going when the work becomes tiresome. And they keep drawing me back, this, probably long after I would have walked away and said I'm too old to be doing this stuff.

[Daniel McPherson]

Julie - You asked if I am a perfectionist. When I was first married I didn't have two pennies to rub together, I literally lived in my car for 3 months while I started my business, but even then I really hated poor quality tools that disappoint. I would rather live in a bare room with one nice quality object in it then a room full of compromises.

One question I have is since I have a Festool track saw with parallel guides would my best course be to get a 16" J/P and a small sliding TS? Use the Festool to breakdown large sheets then use the sliding TS to further dimension the sheets? Would I be to limited on working with lumber with this set up? If so, would that mean I should get a cabinet saw instead?

[David Kumm]

A short stroke slider is a pretty handy machine if you do furniture work and have another way to break down sheet goods. There are a few made today but few less than in the old days when a short stroke was a staple of the shop.DSCN2149.jpgDSCN2817.jpg Here are a couple of mine. 36" stroke. Old but so am I. Dave

[Julie Moriarty]

One question I have is since I have a Festool track saw with parallel guides would my best course be to get a 16" J/P and a small sliding TS? Use the Festool to breakdown large sheets then use the sliding TS to further dimension the sheets? Would I be to limited on working with lumber with this set up? If so, would that mean I should get a cabinet saw instead?

To me, Dan, it makes perfect sense to couple a track saw with a sliding TS, unless you have loads of room in the workshop that you'll never use otherwise. If I replaced my old Delta TS (which has a sliding table attached on the left side) I'd go with a Hammer or Felder sliding TS, no question. And I'd definitely invest in the outriggers for the sliding table. I believe I could do more with that than I can my existing setup. Add the Festool track saw & rails and I can't see ever needing a cabinet saw.

If you threw in the Hammer A3 41 into the mix, well, I can't imagine a better upgrade to what I have unless it was all Felder equipment. But I'd upgrade the J/P to their Silent Power spiral cutting head. I work with highly figured woods (it's an addiction) and I often have to take the boards to the drum sander to plan them down. Straight blade cutters are hard on figured wood.

The only thing that would complete my upgrade would be a bandsaw that can resaw to the 16" range. I have a 16" wide slab of figured bubinga that has been sitting in my shop for years. I had a 13" wide slab of figured sapele too (I turned part of it into a guitar body) that was also sitting for years. Both, because after I bought them I realized the best use of the wood would come in the form of a veneer. But I couldn't rip them to fit my bandsaw. It just seemed wrong! So they sat.

Oh, I forgot, by losing my Delta TS I also lose my router table. So I'd have to get something to replace that too. It never ends...

[John Sanford]

So if my shop is 22X28' and I got a J/P would that space be to small to add a sliding table saw in the future? My understanding is the sliding TS requires a lot more room. Or is it pretty similar to what a cabinet saw requires when you factor infeed and out feed areas?

It's pretty similar. Which is more convenient really depends on how you set up. If you have a cabinet saw with big honkin' outfeed tables that are 8' deep, then that takes up more room, but it's always there ready for ya. Make those outfeeds mobile, and less room. With a slider, the in/outfeed areas aren't permanently occupied by something, whereas with cabinet saws some folks (usually commercial shops) set up their outfeed permanently. If you can set things up so that you can easily open up the infeed and outfeed areas when you need them, then space isn't as much of an issue. As an example, set your saw up within 4' of the garage door. Usually you don't need more than 4' of in/outfeed, but if you do, just open the garage door. Use a mobile assembly table/secondary workbench as an outfeed for a cabinet saw, or just have it in the outfeed zone of a slider and move it when you need the full slider stroke.

Essentially, the size of your workpiece dictates the infeed and outfeed areas. Everything else is just an answer to the question : "how much of this space do you want to take up permanently for convenience's sake." The tracksaw, because you 're moving the tool not the workpiece, has the minimum possible footprint short of using a light saber.

[Rod Sheridan]

If you have an Oneida system does it eliminate the need for one of the ceiling mounted square air cleaners or is that still needed for the dust the dust collection system didn't catch?

It seems like a 16" J/P is what I will end up getting. How much more do you spend when you go from Hammer to Minimax to Feldor and is it worth it?

Hi, yes, good dust collection eliminates the need for an air cleaner.

If the dust has already made it into the shop air, you need to wear a respirator to keep it out of your lungs, no fun at all.

I didn't think the jump from hammer to Felder to Felder was worth it for me. 8 years later my opinion hasn't changed.......Rod.

[Peter Kelly]

Julie - You asked if I am a perfectionist. When I was first married I didn't have two pennies to rub together, I literally lived in my car for 3 months while I started my business, but even then I really hated poor quality tools that disappoint. I would rather live in a bare room with one nice quality object in it then a room full of compromises.

One question I have is since I have a Festool track saw with parallel guides would my best course be to get a 16" J/P and a small sliding TS? Use the Festool to breakdown large sheets then use the sliding TS to further dimension the sheets? Would I be to limited on working with lumber with this set up? If so, would that mean I should get a cabinet saw instead?

Among other tools, I have a 16" J/P and 5' slider in my 15'x25' shop. It's a little cramped but mostly works out ok if I break plywood sheets down with the track saw and remove the saw outrigger when not in use. I wouldn't ever go back to a cabinet-type saw fyi.

If my space was more square than rectangular, I probably would have purchased a saw/shaper/jointer/planer and located it closer to the center of the room.

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