Oneida Mini Dust Gorilla.

[Paul McGaha]

Paul, your suggestion has led me to what I think might be my ideal solution, and I'd like your views on it. First, a bit of background. In my previous shop I had a circa-2000 1.5 hp Oneida with a piped distribution system that had few twists and turns. It worked well enough, though I sometimes wished for a bit more hp. It was frustrating, however, as I tended to rearrange my shop fairly often. In my current--slightly smaller--shop, I'd decided to go with a portable cyclone and not have pipes. I've been using a 1.5 hp non-cyclone JDS with a HEPA filter, and it's OK as far as hooking it up to different machines goes.

I've recently revised my decision to go portable, and looked at Oneida's, Clearvue's and Penn State's offerings, but keep coming back to the conclusion that a portable unit would be better for me. Portable or fixed, I expect I'll be buying from Oneida again. When you look at what you get for what you pay and read reviews of different products, it seems to me that buying from Oneida is a pretty safe bet.

My idea is to buy the V-3000, as you suggested, and initially use it as a portable. I'd think I could easily do that by attaching the fixed base to a oversize base on castors. If necessary, I could add three guy wires on turnbuckles to reduce flexing of the stand (and still be able to remove the drum). The unit's relatively low weight would be a plus in that regard. Considering the unit's height, it would clear the bottoms of the fluorescent lights on my 8' ceiling when I moved it around. I'm thinking of having two 5" gated takeoffs to flex hose from the inlet, with one dedicated to my table saw and the other moved from machine-to-machine. If I later decide to go with a piped system I need only remove the mobile base. I'd also get the drum-full strobe, but don't need the remote switch.

The V-3000 seems to be at the sweet spot of the V-line. It's only $100 more than the V-2000 and the specs for the V-5000 are not better by as much as one might expect, probably because everything but the motor is the same (and sound levels are 75 vs 81 dBA).

What do you (and other readers) think of this solution?

Cary,

I purchased my Oneida 2 Horsepower SDG back in 2009. The unit was sized for my shop and tools by Oneida and they said it would be adequate by a good bit. It's done well so far and no new tools are planned (no more floor space, ).

If I were buying a system for another shop, I'd talk to Oneida about sizing it for me to see what they think, and that would be my starting point. I'd also look close at the pricing of upgrades at the time of purchase. When I bought my system a 3 HP SDG only cost about $100 more than a 2 HP SDG (so, why not a little more HP).

Personally, I prefer a ducted system over a portable system. But I can understand that might not be the case for everyone.

Good luck with your purchase and install.

PHM

[Jim Becker]

My first Oneida was also the circa-2000 1.5hp cyclone (silver) and it's still in reliable service at a friend's shop. I had to upgrade when I bought my J/P combo and that was a very nice 2hp unit, which is MUCH more powerful than the original one, that I actually picked up at the Oneida factory in up-state NY.

While I personally prefer a duct system with the unit in a sound absorbent closet like I have here, I see nothing wrong with the idea of making your unit portable if you can insure that it's stable for safety and can deal with what is likely using the smaller 35 gallon bin due to headroom needs to move it around. What works for you in your shop and with your work habits is the right choice!

[Cary Swoveland]

Paul and Jim, thank you both for your comments. They influenced by decision today to buy an Oneida V-Series 3000. I also ordered the remote and Dust-Sentry drum-full warning device.

The Oneida rep who took my order advised against using a V-Series cyclone as a portable unit, because it's quite top-heavy. I'm not sure I buy that, considering that I could give it a mobile base with a larger footprint and use cables to essentially eliminate flex. In any event, I decided for other reasons (space, convenience and noise) to put the V-3000 in a separate room and install ductwork. I planned out my ductwork with Sketchup and ordered the needed parts (from a different supplier).

I intend to try to quiet the room housing the dust collector and would welcome any advice for doing so. From what I've read, it seems like acoustic foam would be my best bet. I'll be venting back into my workshop, so I'll need to find out how large of a vent (sq. ft.) I'll need. I'll check with Oneida on that.

Jim, in my former shop I had what is probably the same 1.5hp Oneida unit you had, and purchased it at about the same time.

[Rod Sheridan]

No it won't be enough for the A3-31.

Felder will give you the airflow requirements for the A3-31 which will include a volume and pressure figure.

You will need to compare those two numbers to the system curve for your proposed purchase, plus add a few inches of water column for flex hose losses.

I have an A3-31, they need a lot of collector to function properly, they use a 120mm port.

Regards, Rod

[Jim Becker]

Here's how I did the vent from the DC closet back into the room using the ceiling joists to create a folded return. Folding the return means there's no "direct" path for sound transmission. The room, itself, is built with 2x4 framing, plywood on the shop side, unfaced R13 fiberglas between the studs and 1/4" thick hardboard pegboard installed with the rough side toward the inside of the room. All corners are calked. The 7" primary duct to the shop goes through a hole just slightly larger so the metal doesn't touch the wall and silicone sealer was used to create a flexible gasket. The door to the room is a standard steel pre-hung solid exterior door with a wood frame. The foam inside of it helps insure no extra sound is transmitted. My compressor also lives in that little room!

[Cary Swoveland]

Those are all good suggestions, Jim. My Oneida rep said the rule of thumb for the size of the return air vent is one square foot for each 500 CFM, so for the V-System 3000 that would be about three square feet. I'll probably go with somewhat more so I can have an indirect path with some sound dampening without significantly restricting air flow.

[Jim Andrew]

I have been reading all these threads on this cyclone vs that cyclone, and Grizzly seems to have larger impellers compared to the V series of Oneida. The 2hp Grizzly has a 14 1/2" impeller while the V3000 has 14", and the Grizzly 3hp has a 15 1/2" impeller. Would be nice if the cfm's advertised could be comparable, we know of course that they can not.

[Cary Swoveland]

Jim, I wouldn't worry about impeller size. It's just one of many design factors that affect performance. Just compare performance curves, and of course other factors that are important to your decision. For me, the latter include filtering (especially!), noise, overall quality of design and build (mainly reflected by experience reported by owners) and the reputation of the manufacturer.

The review of cyclones for home shops done by Wood Magazine in May, 2013 included both the Griz G0440 and the V-System 3000. (The V-System 3000 machine they tested was the steel one, which has since been replaced by a conductive carbon fibre design. One change I am aware of is that the inlet has been increased from 6" to 7").

Regarding collection performance, the review reported a measured static pressure loss/CFM curve for each machine, but focussed on CFM at 5.5" of SPL, which they consider typical for a home-shop ducted system (see the review for details on length and diameter of pipes, numbers of twists and turns, blast gates and so on). The reviewers considered 800 CFM as a good level. The Griz pulled 1280 CFM; the V-3000, 950. Both are well over the 800 CFM level, but is more always better, and why did the Griz, with only 2hp, do so much better? I'll return to those questions below.

The filters of on the two machines are nearly identical in terms of surface area: 96 sq. ft. for the Griz, 95 for the V-3000. The big (huge!) difference is that the Griz has a 1 micron filter, whereas the V-3000 has a GE certified HEPA filter. The review shows the effect that has on the density of very small airborne particles that get past the filter. The difference is striking, with the V-3000 doing the best of all the machines tested and the Griz among the worst. Of course, if you are not sending filtered air back into your shop, that's not an issue. The reviewers pointed out that too much CFM can actually be a bad thing when it comes to filtering, as it can force greater numbers of sub-1 micron particles through the filter. Moreover, it seems plausible to me that the V-3000's lower CFM may be due in part to the increased resistance of its finer filter.

Noise is another consideration that's important to me. At 10', the V-3000 had a measured sound level of 79 decibels, the Griz, 90! Considering that decibels is a logarithmic scale, that's a pretty big difference. Perhaps noise reduction by the V-3000 also consumes some CFM's.

If you're still uncomfortable with the V-3000's CFM numbers, remember that you can boost them somewhat by going with 7" pipe for all your mains, larger pipe all the way to machines and possible fewer, gentler curves.

Those two machines were on my short list as well. I ordered the V-3000 earlier this week.