Why is a product with high levels of formaldehyde cheaper?
Why is a product with high levels of formaldehyde cheaper?
"Remember back in the day, when things were made by hand, and people took pride in their work?"
- Rick Dale
As for me, I would not touch any product Bob Vila has ever endorsed, but that's just me. I'm in the minority.
I'm sure most have seen this but thought I would post the link, as its a fine example of Scott's comments. I was working in metal stamping when I found this researching training material for some lean training I was developing. We were simply amazed by it....
Chinese Transfer Press: http://youtu.be/9fnVhDb-u8g
Wow....as a guy who spent most of his life on a shop floor, that one left my jaw dropped open.
I'm not at all defending the CEO because I believe you have a responsibility to make sure what you sell is what you say it is, but the part about them putting the labels on that said they were compliant with California law, when they weren't compliant is the part that gets me. If you took it to the worst level, then the CEO instructed them to do it, or the best case for him, he was clueless (not sure I believe that), but none the less, the fact that they will do whatever it takes to ship the product to the USA, no matter what is the disgusting part for me. How deep that knowledge was is what's going to cause them to sink or swim, and you have to feel certain their defense will be "We didn't know" and the blaming it on the Chinese factory who won't spend one day in court, so it'll be easy to say and not have an evidence to show otherwise. They aren't going to call the plant manager from China to testify that he has emails telling him to falsify records.
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Real name Steve but that name was taken on the forum. Used Middle name. Call me Steve or Scott, doesn't matter.
I agree, this is going to turn into a giant finger-pointing cluster-you-know-what.
Ultimately, though, the buck stops with the man at the top. If he hired people willing to lie to his face over the safety of the product they're sourcing for 10-15% less than any similarly sized competitors, then he just didn't want to know.
He's got a decent leg to stand on, I'm sure his documentation all says that it's CARB certified, and all the boxes say it's CARB certified, and the State of California apparently has a third party certify the factories the stuff is made in, which gives them the authority to put CARB certified on the boxes.
His defense would be "We ordered CARB certified, the box said it was CARB certified, and the State of California approved the manufacturer for production of CARB certified products. We didn't certify the manufacturer, the State of California did, and we just used their approved supplier". I could see him successfully using that defense, even though the buck stops with him. He'll play the victim in it all for sure.
Here's their website info about it all....
http://www.lumberliquidators.com/sus...th-and-safety/
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Real name Steve but that name was taken on the forum. Used Middle name. Call me Steve or Scott, doesn't matter.
I would not be willing to buy the defense of "We didn't know it was not CARB compliant". When some company offers to supply you with lumber that's significantly less expensive than other factories, a rational person would ask "How are they doing that?" and "Why isn't everyone else buying from them?" and get the lumber tested.
Ignorance, when the ignorance is willful, is not a defense.
Mike
[And California does not certify factories. They publish the testing standards and the manufacturer is suppose to test to those standards.]
Last edited by Mike Henderson; 03-03-2015 at 10:06 AM.
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
True, but they have a third party that certifies the companies in China, so they do have some responsibility in this, if their third party certified the place and it's producing non compliant materials.
"To comply with the CARB standards, applicable laminate and engineered flooring and accessories sold by Lumber Liquidators are purchased from manufacturers whose production methods have been certified by a Third Party Certifier approved by the State of California to meet the CARB standards; or from suppliers who source composite wood raw materials only from certified manufacturers."
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Real name Steve but that name was taken on the forum. Used Middle name. Call me Steve or Scott, doesn't matter.
Is it certified in other states Every one knows California can be a little over board on some things.
A quick look around the internet and it's a bit of a problem for anyone that thinks it all needs to be ripped out and replaced. In just a quick glance, it looks like most everything used to build a house has formaldehyde in it. The pressed board that made the bathroom vanities, the kitchen cabinets, the core floor that the Lumber Liquidators flooring is nailed to, the insulation under the house, in the attic, and in the walls, etc, etc, etc.
Seems OSB and pressed boards are really bad for it, so if someone wants to rid their home from it, they might have to start with a bulldozer.
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Real name Steve but that name was taken on the forum. Used Middle name. Call me Steve or Scott, doesn't matter.
You can't trust 60 Minutes - they are into the same sort of sensationalism as other "news" shows. Who do you trust? Its all a bunch of B_
"Lumber Liquidators said in multiple statements throughout the day that it complies with applicable regulations regarding its products, including California standards for formaldehyde emissions. "These attacks are driven by a small group of short-selling investors who are working together for the sole purpose of making money by lowering our stock price," the company said in one statement.
Shares in the flooring retailer had also fallen on news of the impending report last week. All told, the stock lost about 43 percent over the last week.
The company sought to calm customers and investors, insisting that "our laminate floors are completely safe to use as intended."
Lumber Liquidators said that it believes the CBS show used an "improper test method." The company added that it has documentation to support every step of its production process.
The flooring retailer also alleged in a statement that its chairman had addressed the company's test methodology, but "60 Minutes" had chosen not to include that information."