Anyone heard from David Weaver?

[Harold Burrell]

This forum frequently has posts with thousands of views but only 10 or so people commenting. Those are not healthy stats. Add to that- good folks are departing. Red flags.

I believe forums have a life cycle similar to rivers: youthful, mature, old age, rejuvenated. SMC is in the old age stage; a small number of posters with high skill levels and few new posters. The new guys lurk because they love being fed, but they feel too inadequate compared to the members with high skill who frequently post. Those higher skilled folks tend to critique (*often unwittingly), and therefore people become afraid to post. Ultimately posts turn from "Here's what I'm building this week (photos)" to "Here's another very technical argument about something we have hashed out already but I love talking about (graphic data, photomicograph)."

Boom.

For an old age stream to rejuvenate, it has to meander back upon itself, ultimately cutting off an oxbow and creating a fresh channel where water flows more freely. The faster flowing water causes other parts of the river to follow suit, and soon you have a rejuvenated stream. *EDIT! This is not a reference to cutting off David or other members- I mean something must change to rejeuvenate and get the flow going. That could be something like getting rid of seldom-used subforums. Example- I am a boatbuilder. I teach boatbuilding. I think I have posted on the boatbuilding forum maybe four times. There are established boatbuilding forums for that. Maybe merge a few of these specialty categories to get more folks talking together instead of segregating them.

Perhaps that should become a new thread topic followed by asking people how to improve and why they don't post, especially begging lurkers to comment. I say this not negatively but because I see a need for it when so few are sharing and folks are leaving. We noticed David. How many did we not notice?

Good post, sir. A very good post.

[Reinis Kanders]

Woodcentral also is pretty quiet, but seems to have been around forever. Things will work out.

[Frederick Skelly]

Good post, sir. A very good post.

+1. Thanks Malcolm.

[Chris Parks]

This forum frequently has posts with thousands of views but only 10 or so people commenting. Those are not healthy stats. Add to that- good folks are departing. Red flags.

I believe forums have a life cycle similar to rivers: youthful, mature, old age, rejuvenated. SMC is in the old age stage; a small number of posters with high skill levels and few new posters. The new guys lurk because they love being fed, but they feel too inadequate compared to the members with high skill who frequently post. Those higher skilled folks tend to critique (*often unwittingly), and therefore people become afraid to post. Ultimately posts turn from "Here's what I'm building this week (photos)" to "Here's another very technical argument about something we have hashed out already but I love talking about (graphic data, photomicograph)."

Boom.

For an old age stream to rejuvenate, it has to meander back upon itself, ultimately cutting off an oxbow and creating a fresh channel where water flows more freely. The faster flowing water causes other parts of the river to follow suit, and soon you have a rejuvenated stream. *EDIT! This is not a reference to cutting off David or other members- I mean something must change to rejeuvenate and get the flow going. That could be something like getting rid of seldom-used subforums. Example- I am a boatbuilder. I teach boatbuilding. I think I have posted on the boatbuilding forum maybe four times. There are established boatbuilding forums for that. Maybe merge a few of these specialty categories to get more folks talking together instead of segregating them.

Perhaps that should become a new thread topic followed by asking people how to improve and why they don't post, especially begging lurkers to comment. I say this not negatively but because I see a need for it when so few are sharing and folks are leaving. We noticed David. How many did we not notice?

I think eventually forums will go the way of Newsgroups for those old enough to have participated when they were the new social media.

[Brian Holcombe]

I think it is partially owed to the fact that being a hand-tool 'mostly' woodworker is a rare thing to begin with, so it's intimidating to come into this forum and share if you only use hand tools a very small part of the time. However people do want to learn and so they search of fallow along with interesting topics.

Of the hundreds of woodworkers local to myself, I can think of two or three others which specialize in hand tools. However from my conversations with the locals i see a growing usage of hand tools for certain work. People who are like that may still not find a need to do anything more than search/read.

David is a great person and has been incredibly helpful to me, I do wish his return to this forum, but I understand his reasons for moving on.

[bob blakeborough]

I am going to plug my nose and jump in the deep end...

Speaking for myself, a lot of the reason I lurk and don't post very much isn't because I am intimidated by skilled peoples knowledge. It is because it really grew tiresome to be made to feel like it was always a "my way or the highway" type thing with a few of the more aggressive skilled people, and I am sorry if this is going to upset anyone, but David was/is one of those types.

He might be the nicest, most sincere yet misunderstood guy in the world, but he was not kindly to those who didn't accept what he said as gold. His posts back at you would be back loaded with little pearls of insult and condiscention. Heaven forbid the poor newbie arrives and mentions any reference to a more known but lesser skilled woodworker (forgive me... BLOGGER) than himself. Well that would unleash the beast and make you feel like the person who maybe rekindled an interest for you was worthless and you also must be an idiot for liking him...

Forgive me all, because I am not trying change anyone's mind about the value of his skill and knowledge, but if we want this forum to be a place which attracts new people and not makes them only want to lurk rather than participate, maybe we need to think about the way we talk "TO" each other rather than "AT" each other...

Ugghhh... Rant over. I did not want to be a jerk and talk poorly about anyone and for that I apologize but I feel like unless this type of behaviour gets addressed it will not change. At least for sensitive newbies such as myself...

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Malcolm, I have to disagree to some extent. I don't think it's a sign of the forum health to have many views and little posts. I think a forum grows on itself at the pace of general knowledge. This is afterall a social, educational tool and database. We are here to associate with a group with a common interest, as humans tend to be social animals. In any situation, those that stand out carry a higher load, either criticism, respect, or disdain. Many don't want to stand out to be subjected to the scrutiny of the masses, so they read and but don't post. How many questions get asked when a lecturer asks for them at the end of his presentation? Same thing here.

The neanderthal forum is different than others because a smaller group with a higher percentage of highly educated posters hang out here. As the novice is so far behind the general knowledge level of the group, it's common to just sit quietly and learn rather than stand out and subject yourself to the painful process of being "judged" by the experts. The power tool forum is different as there are so many more posters, that experts don't emerge as frequently and its a more open exchange of ideas at different levels of expertise. I'd argue that neither is better than the other, just different.

It is exceptional to see as many expert level hand tool users in one place as there are here. It can lead to public bickering though that can be offputting to the bystanders.

[Pat Barry]

He'll be back in time unless he is finished with woodworking completely, there isn't really a better alternative. On the other hand, he might be mostly interested in inventing / arguing the merits of a chip breaker for his razor.

[Mel Fulks]

Bob,that is not the way I see it and I don't think you need to worry about being too sensitive. Maybe what we have here is
a Siskel and Ebert situation. No way to vote for who is really right.

[Shawn Pixley]

It's a forum. You don't get to preach. You get to have discussions with people that don't agree with you (even if they're wrong), and that may not even like you. I always try and take the approach of "here's my opinion, but try for yourself/don't try/do what you want...I don't care." When I find myself getting too wrapped up in it, like it actually matters, I take little breaks too until it's back in perspective. That's not always a bad thing.

This is no comment upon David. I have utmost respect upon his knowledge of stones and several other things. I have found him generous and giving of his knowledge and opinion. However, even with his learned expertise, I still use my waterstones and have no plans to change.

What tires me in this forum is sniping between members on their method being the only right or correct method. The easiest example is a constant back and forth about hollow grind vs simple bevel or freehand or honing guide. Any combination of these can work and there is no one "right way." I really don't care whether one uses a guide or not. If they can get the bevel sharp consistantly, whatever they do is fine. If someone think that the "perfect edge" is obtained by by chanting incantations over the tool under a full moon, then honing it using a combination of stale bread and cat fur and they are happy, I don't care. Nor to I plan to try it. It is easy to look past these comments and threads without a need to comment. It is when we think that everyone should be doing it "our way" or the "one true way" that our arrogance gets in the way of friendly discourse and civil discussion. Reasonable people can agree to disagree.

The nature of these forums are that the same questions will be asked again and again. That is the nature of people who are learning constantly coming to the forum to learn. I firmly believe all of us are still learning. Many of us have somehong to teach as well. A teacher who teaches the same class each year is obviously going to be repeating him or herself. Getting frustrated with that aspect, helps no one.

[Noah Wagener]

sorta. someone who i am pretty sure is him bid on a Washita i was selling on ebay. the username was like daw and from Pitt. This same user had just sold a Washita for the same price he would have paid for mine. intervention anyone?I think he in Cartagena with Joan Wilder

[Noah Wagener]

anyone heard from Warren Mickley?

[ken hatch]

I can understand if David pulled away from the forum because of folks with out knowledge or experience "Big Footing" his posts. I've done the same on other forums. For years I've been a very knowledgeable long distance motorcycle rider with tested methods of riding safely and in cool comfort through the Southwest deserts during the heat of the day and doing it while riding from tank to tank. Motorcycle riding in the heat threads on motorcycle forums are about the same as sharpening threads on woodworking forums. With out fail there would be some guy that lived and rode Michigan that would contradict the information I posted and/or say I was wrong posting as his reason some "conventional wisdom" that has been been discarded by the folks that do for ages. It gets old after awhile.

ken

[Jason Roehl]

This is one of the caveats of the internet. Everyone, with only a few exceptions (those who are known through other media outlets), is on an equal footing. Forums, like SMC, may have those who are somewhat known as experts, but new members to the forum may not know them from Adam. Likewise, those who are grossly incompetent have a voice that perhaps gets more airtime than it should. Each member's ability to deal with these realities factors in to how long they stick around on the forums. I'm a painting contractor by trade, and have certainly seen patently bad painting advice given here, but I don't lose sleep over it. I give my opinion and move on. I've also gotten nasty private messages from someone who claimed to have more experience than me in trim carpentry (something I've done a fair amount of over the years in addition to the painting) who disagreed with my assessment of an older technique that I've seen fail.

[Stewie Simpson]

"Each member's ability to deal with these realities factors in to how long they stick around on the forums."

Hi Jason. That's an accurate assessment.

I would also like to acknowledge the fine contribution David has made to this forum of many years.

Stewie;