Anyone heard from David Weaver?

[Jim Koepke]

Most of the time the most valuable voice here at The Creek is the one who asks a question

Earlier today my neighbor's sons came by. The older one is very curious and was asking a lot of questions. He eventually asked if it was bothersome of him to be asking so many of what must seem to be stupid questions. My response was about all questions being not stupid or the only stupid questions were the ones not asked. He then asked questions in rapid order as my answer was given another would be asked. After about four of these, he said, "well I guess I can't come up with a good and stupid question right now."

jtk

[george wilson]

So,I suppose that those who have spent their entire careers working wood have facts (opinions?) no better than a beginner? That does not make a lot of sense. It really doesn't. Opinions are based on feelings and feelings are not going to make you a better craftsman. Facts are. The two are different things. We all have feelings,but they are reserved for other things,not for how do you chop a mortise,etc..

I once saw a guitar made by a person who made them entirely based on his feelings. This was back in the hippie days.They had horrid looking trapezoid shaped sound holes in a normal classical guitar shaped body. He spaced the frets based on his feelings. The guitars would not play in tune at all! They were truly the worst looking guitars I ever saw. They were made entirely of redwood,even the fingerboards. They were left entirely un varnished.

Actually,the ancient Egyptians knew the Earth was round. They knew the diameter of the Earth,and the distance to the Sun. Columbus knew the Earth was round. Otherwise,he wouldn't have tried to sail a long way. The ignorant crew were afraid they'd sail off the edge of the Earth.

Don't forget,experts cured polio,and invented the modern World. There is nothing wrong with expertise. It is how the human race got out of caves.

I once took my new car to a mechanic who told me that the automatic choke spring had been installed backwards. He turned it around for me. I was later on juggling hot parts by the side of the road turning the spring back around the right way with only a pen knife to turn screws!! My carb had slammed shut! After that,I sought a mechanic with more expertise! I really needed an expert to get to work on time(and clean!!!)

But,as for me,I am done trying to protect new woodworkers. If a person comes here and says that a steel tool is harder than carbide,I'm going to say that's just fine, and, hey, I agree, and I'm going to be nice.

If you want to throw me off of here for saying this,I cannot prevent you.

[ian maybury]

There's a few matters (and lots more) it seems to me that are important in a forum and/or working environment. It's never simple:

By definition the wisest or most profound view in a given situation tends not to be the majority/commonly held one.
Strength typically lies in a diversity of views - beware when all agree.
From that perspective - differing backgrounds tend to produce differing and highly useful inputs.
There's no absolute right or wrong. Only a best for the moment view in a given situation. It's a moving and highly relative target…
Few are ready to do the work to gain an in depth understanding. Most want a quickie and pat answer.
Always drive for the deepest possible and most holistic level of understanding, adopt methods because they make the best sense. Don't ever (except conditionally) adopt a view just because x,y, says so, because it's the concensus, dominant ideology or whatever.
The best solutions are typically highly nuanced, situation specific and take into account and balance many variables. They are rarely easy to sell...
There's as a result stuff that definitely doesn't work, and stuff that frequently does - but very rarely a black and white absolutely right or wrong way to approach a given problem.
Few are capable of reaching an independent view - we're very heavily conditioned to avoid going against the hierarchy/tribal view, or else we play stuff for personal advantage. The latter often in a highly covert manner. e.g. we align ourselves with others or ideologies we regard as 'powerful' for example. Some prefer to cheerlead..
It's not about the creation of some sort of pack hierarchy, with an alpha technocrat, some superior ideology or whatever to whom/which all defer.
It's consequently inappropriate that any individual should seek to work themselves into such a position, nor that others keen to see order should endeavour to bring this about.
Excessive attachment or aversion to any view almost inevitably leads to anger or discomfort - we feel threatened, or want to force our view on another.
We're none of us responsible for knocking others into shape, or forcing our view or status on others - our role is just to say our bit in the wisest possible manner if it feels right.
Ignorance (as in lack of knowledge/knowing/experince) can however have costly consequences, so...
Respect for wisdom is consequently appropriate. That's genuinely earned respect that's proven its credentials, and not e.g. respect given by virtue of power, position or whatever.
Respect for another does not entail always (or even ever) agreeing with that person.
Reasoned and reasonable diagreement is not criticism, and may in fact mask large areas of common ground.
Agreement is likewise not always unconditional, or complete.
The most valuable input is often that which bounces us out of our comfort zone/bubble of certainty to trigger fresh insight and improved ways of seeing.
What we perceive in a given situation is typically heavily conditioned by our beliefs and expectations, and will likely be very different to what another sees.
We're each on a personal journey, learning whatever lessons happen to be relevant in our life situation. Maybe for many it's nothing to do with the woodworking at all, it's just a vehicle for bringing us into contact with others with whom we must learn to relate..

Etc

[Patrick Bernardo]

I too miss David. He was a voice of reason, and fearlessly fought against the current when he knew that he was right.

In the spirit of David, I'd like to point out that the idea that people - sailors in particular - believed that the Earth was flat is a myth. All educated people - all of them - in the West since the Greeks understood that the Earth was round. Sailors knew the Earth was round, since their navigational instruments depended upon the curvature of the Earth and due to the simple fact of the way in which ships appear and disappear over the horizon. The myth was originally cooked up by Protestants who were trying to slur Catholics and claimed that people were stupid during the 'so-called' Middle Ages. Columbus knew it was round, his crew knew it was round, the kings and queens of Europe knew it was round.

[Joe Leigh]

"But,as for me,I am done trying to protect new woodworkers. If a person comes here and says that a steel tool is harder than carbide,I'm going to say that's just fine, and, hey, I agree, and I'm going to be nice.
If you want to throw me off of here for saying this,I cannot prevent you."

Why would anyone remove you from this forum for making a benign comment like that? And why do you feel as though you have to protect new woodworkers? As as far as I know everyone's participation here is voluntary. You are free to come and go like David did and many others before him have.

You have a wealth of knowledge that would surely be missed by many here, but they would get their help elsewhere and this forum would go on. Keep in mind that not every member comes here for specific detailed information. Some come to chat with people that have a common interest or to share techniques. Others come for the entertainment value.

[george wilson]

Sailors knew that the farther South they sailed,the lower in the night sky their navigating stars fell,until they went below the horizon,creating navigational problems. One reason they needed an accurate clock. Only on a ball are the stars going to do that.

An astronomer explained to me how the Ancient Egyptians knew these things about the diameter of the Earth and the distance to the Sun. A few simple diagrams and use of triangles made it easily clear.

The Vikings sailed great distances with a simple "Sun board",which,though on TV recently,was actually factual,and extremely ingenious. They did not yet have the compass.

Joe,I grew up in a very near vacuum where I had to learn every scrap of knowledge the hard way. Alaska in the 50's was not an intellectual environment,nor were light houses. I guess I know how hard knowledge is to come by. At least,it used to be. It really might be even harder today,with so much information,much of dubious veracity available.

I was raised to make me believe that everything that went wrong was my fault. Including my mother running away with the wrong man at 18,before I was born. A horrible childhood can mess up your head. I guess these things have given me the screwy idea that I should protect those who are trying to learn. I guess I have the crazy idea that if they don't get a straight answer,it's my fault. Been thinking about this lately. Aren't people completely nuts?

I know I've been too harsh on some issues. And,I'm the bad guy to some. That is really what this and the whole David thing is about. I need to rid myself of trying to protect new comers. That's true. I have trained quite a few un grateful apprentices. And a very few who were grateful. One of my best high school pupils came to see me a few years after I came to the museum. He said he gave up on the new teacher after he saw the guy try to sharpen a circular saw with a wood rasp! I did feel appreciated by that student.

It seems a little strange to me that someone would come to a technical site just for entertainment. Things like endless discussions on what stones to use,and the like don't seem that entertaining to me. Maybe I'm wrong,but I'd think that if someone wanted entertainment,they could find a more exciting site with action,adventure,romance,etc..

[Frederick Skelly]

George, thanks for teaching us all, and especially for patiently teaching me. We appreciate your participation here and value your advice Sir!
Respectfully,
Fred

[Jim Koepke]

It seems a little strange to me that someone would come to a technical site just for entertainment.

+1 on that.

My reason for reading posts here is an attempt to glean every bit of information offered. In return if anyone makes an inquiry about something within my knowledge, it is answered to the best of my understanding.

What has bothered me one time or another is when someone asks why something happens or how to accomplish a task and my reply answers on various levels then someone chimes in, not with a better nor even a different answer, but with a condemnation of my answer for being more than what the original poster may have wanted. Of course the original poster didn't complain.

There are people of many types who participate on many levels. They range from the lurkers trying to learn more about the art of woodworking, to the novice who wants to learn more and share what they have learned, to the masters of the art who give of their time to share what they have done and help others with inspiration, instruction and even hope that someday we might be able to produce just one piece so beautiful.

My standard reply to sharpening problems brought here by beginners is to keep it simple. Usually there is someone who insists the person should use a secondary bevel, camber the blade and don't forget back bevels and ruler tricks. With so many different things going on in the pursuit of a sharp edge, how is a person just learning about creating a sharp edge supposed to figure out what went wrong when it doesn't work?

Where did this soap box come from and why am I standing on it?

jtk

[Steve Voigt]

I once saw a guitar made by a person who made them entirely based on his feelings. This was back in the hippie days.They had horrid looking trapezoid shaped sound holes in a normal classical guitar shaped body. He spaced the frets based on his feelings. The guitars would not play in tune at all! They were truly the worst looking guitars I ever saw.

But that's nothing a nice fat spliff won't fix!

[Stew Denton]

George,

One more +1 on what you are trying to teach us.

That said, I think that learning is as much in the attitude of the student as in the knowledge of the one doing the teaching. For that reason, I don't think you can protect those who already think that they know it all, and don't have the good sense to listen. No one can totally protect such folks.

I for one do appreciate that you, and folks like David as well when he was here, try to keep the rest of us from making obvious errors, some of which can even be dangerous. Even if you only post the idea one time, some of us know enough to pay careful attention, because we know that you have been down the this road quite a ways farther than some of the rest of us will ever go.

I have made plenty of foolish mistakes trying to do woodwork, especially when I was a lot younger, so know things can happen. They almost never happen to me now, because I have learned the hard way more than once, and learned from those errors.

What I am trying to say is that I hope you will continue to look out for the ones of us that want to listen, even though there are a few who show little appreciation.

Jim, I think that you are dead right. Beginners need to learn how to walk before they can run.

Stew

[Bob Woodburn]

I was raised to make me believe that everything that went wrong was my fault. Including my mother running away with the wrong man at 18,before I was born. A horrible childhood can mess up your head. I guess these things have given me the screwy idea that I should protect those who are trying to learn. I guess I have the crazy idea that if they don't get a straight answer,it's my fault. Been thinking about this lately. Aren't people completely nuts?

I know I've been too harsh on some issues. And,I'm the bad guy to some. That is really what this and the whole David thing is about. I need to rid myself of trying to protect new comers. That's true.

George, I don't know you, but have read you here and elsewhere for many years. It is admirable that you feel responsible to speak up for (and to) the young and naive. I can imagine you especially learned the harm of silent adult voices in your boyhood when no one was speaking up for you.

"... I'm the bad guy...That is really what this and the whole David thing is about."

I take this to imply that you feel personal guilt for David's departure, that you failed to speak up for him, that he has been harmed and it's your fault! Worse, a torment that goes back decades in time to childhood has come alive for you. Would you agree?

If you do, this bothers me. Your pain bothers me. You did nothing to deserve it. It is unfair. I hope you can be persuaded that the foibles of us witless humans are not your fault. I think your commitment to feeding pearls to what may at times appear to be young swine is commendable. I wound say you are a successful human, not a failure.

Best wishes, Bob

[george wilson]

Bob,no,I don't feel responsible for David leaving. He is plenty smart enough to think for himself. Thank you and the others for your support.

[John Coloccia]

Say George, if you're going to take responsibility for all the bad woodworking in the world, that's going to be quite an undertaking...

[Jim Koepke]

But that's nothing a nice fat spliff won't fix!

Careful, that isn't legal in Virginia… yet.

Besides, one has to be really drunk or smoked for ugly to not still be ugly.

jtk

[Christopher Charles]

I watched a couple of David's videos and if he's absent in part because he's devoting his energies to the video effort, I think that's great. While I would encourage him to buy a tripod (or work toward smoother camera movements), beyond that, they're great--long, and provide lots of detail and tidbits for the careful observer.

C