Choosing an old planer ... on a budget

[Tom Deutsch]

Hi all - I’m new to the forum, so pardon me if this topic has been chewed to death already (I searched but couldn’t find.) I like older “buy them by the pound” tools and I’m trying to decide which 12-ish inch planer to chase after. My choices seem to be a Belsaw 910 or 9103, or a Parks. The Parks looks “cooler” to me- with the cast iron frame and all. Plus, it’s from Cincy, like me. The Belsaw, though, seems to be more common and maybe more parts available. Plus the ability to get molding knives, but that’s not very important to me. Quality of cut, lack of snipe and general toughness is. And cost - did I mention cost? The Parks should run me a good c-note or two less. I know Delta had an older cast-iron model too. I threw out a $400 offer on one that was priced at $800 on CL and didn’t get it. (I know - don’t be so tight … you get what you pay for… etc. My response is … 3 kids in college!)
Any opinions and reasons on whether to go after or avoid the Belsaw or the Parks? Or should I just get a used modern lunchbox Delta and settle down?

[Mark Wooden]

Powermatic, Delta, Rockwell/Delta, Parks planers are all good cast iron planers that are very rebuildable, I think the Belsaw's and Woodmasters used a fair amount of sheetmetal and as such aren't as heavy duty. You can still get some parts for a Parks, there's a machinery dealer in MD I think.
The Powermatic 5x12 is probably the best of them; it's pretty much an industrial grade machine and very simple to run and maintain. The Parks is a 4x12 machine and I'm told they can produce very smooth cuts.
The Delta 13" 22-101 (oldstyle) has a bronze worm gear that when worn or busted can cost more than the whole machine, if you can find one. The Rockwell 22-401 is a 6x13 planer with variable speed feed that cuts really nice and is very quiet. Not a lot around,and again,no parts.
The Delta Invicta planers, made in Brazil, are not bad either I'm told, but I've not heard a lot good about the Chiwanese planers
Of them all, I'd go for a Powermatic 100 first, then a Parks, and the others a toss up as good planers that are now hard to fix because of parts. There aren't a lot of parts out there for the powermatic, but then, they really don't break down much unless abused.

FWIW, I own and run a Powermatic 100 a lot, have a Rockwell 22-401 and an Oliver 399, which is a whole different animal. But the PM100 is my favorite

[Tom Deutsch]

Thanks Mark - Good points. Looks like the Powermatics command more than I'm able to spend though. Looking to nab something locally/regionally (i.e. not eOverPay) for $300-$500.

[Judson Green]

Had a parks, gave it to a buddy when I got a 20" PM. Great machine, well built. I think it would serve you well. Dust collection was nonexistence on the parks, but maybe you could rig something up.

Honestly though if I was gonna do a 12-13" again I'd get a lunch box. Probably not as good a finish but I'd never consider the last pass of a planner to be the finished surface. Also probably louder. But a ton lighter if space is a issue.

In full disclosure I have no planner right now (got out of the woodworking business) but would like to get a lunch box.

[John TenEyck]

I bought a well used and somewhat abused Foley-Belsaw 910 about 5 years ago. It's a very simple machine and easy to work on. I paid $250 for it, which included the ripping attachment and quite a few molding knives. I put about $75 in it to replace most of the bushings and springs, and another $50 or so on a new set of Titan knives. I've used it extensively (several thousand BF) since then and haven't had to put any more money in it. It's a really crude machine (at least compared to my Inca J/P), rattles and shakes when it starts up and shuts down, but nothing slows it down with that 5 HP motor and the finish is plenty good. It is subject to snipe, but when that's an issue I just run a piece of scrap in front of and behind the first and last board. I've run quite a bit of molding with it, too, which is the original reason I bought it. If you can find one or a Woodmaster, and can get it for a good price, I doubt you would be disappointed, and you can always sell it for about what you paid for it should you find something you'd rather have. I'm sure you would be equally happy with any of the machines discussed above, too, and I'd buy the first one that comes along that fits your budget.

John

[Don Jarvie]

The Belsaw is a very good planer for the price. I have the 9103 model with a 3 hp R/I motor on it and it will plane anything. Belsaw is still in operation so you can get parts. They are a very simple machine. If you find one check the rollers. They are neoprene and can be dried out but they can be replaced. I've seen them in the 100 to 250 range which is very reasonable.

[John C Bush]

Hi Tom,
I had a Parks for 10 + years and had great results with it. Very solid and powerfull. I upgraded to a 20"er with spiral cutter and don't get as smooth finish as the parks. Mine was in great shape with the full cast iron base and I think I sold it for ~$800 a few years ago. Setting the blades was not difficult and sharpening was ~$7per blade(3). It is a workhorse and does a great job so if you can get it at a good price it would be a good choice. If you won't be milling lots of stock and don't need wider capacity a lunch box may be a more reasonable choice. It's always fun to upgrade!!

[Don Jarvie]

I bought a well used and somewhat abused Foley-Belsaw 910 about 5 years ago. It's a very simple machine and easy to work on. I paid $250 for it, which included the ripping attachment and quite a few molding knives. I put about $75 in it to replace most of the bushings and springs, and another $50 or so on a new set of Titan knives. I've used it extensively (several thousand BF) since then and haven't had to put any more money in it. It's a really crude machine (at least compared to my Inca J/P), rattles and shakes when it starts up and shuts down, but nothing slows it down with that 5 HP motor and the finish is plenty good. It is subject to snipe, but when that's an issue I just run a piece of scrap in front of and behind the first and last board. I've run quite a bit of molding with it, too, which is the original reason I bought it. If you can find one or a Woodmaster, and can get it for a good price, I doubt you would be disappointed, and you can always sell it for about what you paid for it should you find something you'd rather have. I'm sure you would be equally happy with any of the machines discussed above, too, and I'd buy the first one that comes along that fits your budget.

John

To address the snipe adjust your outfeed table upwards slightly on the front of it. I find that if I pull the board up a hair when it comes off the outfeed table the snipe goes away.

[Jim Dwight]

I used a manual feed INCA jointer with the planner attachment initially. It was only 8 5/8 wide. The manual feed was a bigger issue. So I upgraded to a very used Ryboi AP-10. It is the original lunchbox planner. It had extremely dull knives when I got it but I ordered a set and started sharpening. Before the new knives arrived I had the old ones sharp and I haven't changed them. It is 10 inches wide but most boards are less than that. It is fine for what I do. We moved so I am doing house projects and trying to get my shop garage set up. I'm sure a bigger, more powerful planner would plane boards in less passes and occasionally I have to rip a board into two pieces before planeing. But I only paid $100 for the Ryobi, it doesn't take up a lot of space, and it is a whole lot less work than the manual feed INCA. I've built half a dozen bedroom sets starting from rough hardwood so it has been used.

[Matthew Hills]

where are you located?
if you've got an active craigslist, easiest to just keep a filter running to notify you when any candidates show up.
I got my Parks that way. Occasionally see the old powermatics, too.

Matt

[Joseph Montroy]

The first machine I bought was a pm100. Rock solid. I'd highly recommend it if you can find one. The craigslist app is your friend. Cheap machines go QUICK!

[Tom Deutsch]

Good input - thanks, everyone. If I went for the Belsaw, it would be because the of the ability to use the molding knives. How practical is this aspect of the machine vs having a simple router table or shaper head? Is it a pain to change from the planer knives to the molding knives and back (setup, adjustment, etc) or is it simpler than that?

[Allan Speers]

great thread. I'm also in the market for a step-up from my Makita 2012B lunchbox, because I have a huge amount of long, heavy boards to process.

But a followup question: I of course understand that some old machines were made to a higher standard, in many ways, and that's important. However what's the fascination with "solid cast iron?" I get that with a table saw, or a bandsaw, where every bit of vibration absorption is critical. However, no one usually expects finished quality from a planer, so shouldn't other factors be more important? (Not to mention, the finish from my Makita is excellent, and I've seen the finish from a DW735/Byrd head combo that was basically finish-ready.)

I ask because I've been eyeballing a few PM100's, but I'd be LUCKY to find one for $1,000, in any condition. Almost the same for the Parks. By comparison, I've seen Belsaw and WM 12" models go for around $500. Additionally, the WM has an infinitely variable feed rate, which should yield a better finish than the PM can, assuming one is not in a hurry. (Byrd heads are available for all three machines, of course.) And the WM, along with one vintage Delta, has bigger in-out tables, All the PM's I've seen have (literally) none.

And still, the web is chock full of massive praise for the PM100. What makes that machine so worthwhile? Or is it more a case of "big ol' arn" love?

[David Kumm]

If you talk to the old iron guys, the PM 100 is a favorite as is the older Rockwell 13". The pick of the litter is the General 14" planer. They are like gold. Parks are very good but you need to know something about them to tell the good from the bad as they are a more complicated design. The molder- planers are versatile but sometimes the finish might be less than what you can obtain with a dedicated planer. The nature of the moding capability means no chipbreaker or pressure bar and feed rollers set far from the head. It is a design compromise. Dave

[Bill Adamsen]

There was a description of all the various mechanics - basically the six various components of a planer - in a post a few years back that's worth a look just to familiarize oneself with the different mechanics. What he missed, and like others have said above, in most cases it is helpful to have dust (shaving) collection, in some cases is absolutely imperative. Good luck!

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...tions&p=354598