A few questions about turning tools

[Mike Holbrook]

I am about to buy a lathe, maybe a Grizzly G0766 or a Nova DVR. I have spent a decade or two developing reasonable sharpening skills and I have grinders, CBN wheels, Japanese stones, diamond plates. I am about to buy a basic set of wood turning tools.

Drew Langsner at Country Workshops suggested four turning tools to get started: roughing gouge, finishing/spindle gouge, parting tool and a skew chisel.Drew's suggestions would reflect mostly the needs of a person building Windsor and Welsh stick chairs. I have a good supply of green wood on the property I live on and see myself not only building chairs but turning some bowls, plates and platers. I would like to buy good tools, not learner tools. I believe I have the sharpening skills and properly outfitted grinder to care for them now. I know Henry Taylor and D-Way make good tools although the selection at D-Way seems sort of specialized to me. Drew gave me a Packard Woodworks catalogue which lists a bunch of tools made by famous/infamous turners... I am looking for a quality steel that can hold an edge for a reasonably long time.

I have seen a few posts that seem to suggest a large bowl gouge can substitute for a roughing gouge. I think bowl gouges are typically designed from a solid bar of steel where roughing gouges are a bent sheet of steel? I am wondering if a good bowl gouge or two might work for me in place of a roughing gouge? I am also a little foggy on whether or not there are significant differences between detail gouges, spindle gouges and smaller bowl gouges? I suspect I need one or two from this category too. I plan to buy a diamond shaped parting tool and some sort of scraper and or skew chisel. I see a myriad of wood handle lengths and some manufacturers sell handles separately. I saw one post that suggested a new person buy tools without handles and use them to make tool handles. Are handle lengths, materials and styles largely a matter of personal preference or are there significant advantages/disadvantages to all these handle types? Would it make sense to start out buying tools without handles and a couple interchangeable handles and then make my own? Suggestions on manufacturers and tool types would be greatly appreciated.

[Dale Gillaspy]

I would probably add a bowl gouge instead of taking away the roughing gouge. Yes, a bowl gouge can substitute for a spindle roughing gouge, but not as efficiently. However, the reverse is not true. A spindle roughing gouge is good for just that, spindles only. Bad things can happen when you attempt to use it on face/cross grain wood.

[Dave Cullen]

A spindle roughing gouge, at least 1" in HSS. I have a cheap Benjamin's Best from PSI and it's a great tool.
Spindle detail gouge, 3/8" is a good size. Mine is by Cindy Drozda (Sorby) and is a superb tool.
A skew chisel, 1" or better. I like the flat ones, not oval (personal preference).
Diamond point parting tool.
A 1/2 inch bowl gouge - D-Way and Doug Thompson make nice ones. I get mine without handles and turn my own.

Handle length and styles are personal, but in general a bowl gouge handle is longer than a spindle tool. You need the leverage when reaching into the bottom of a bowl.

[Scott Hackler]

Definitely consider bowl gouges. My go to tool is a 1/2" bowl gouge (or marked 3/8" in the UK). I do 80% of everything with that tool. I also have a 5/8" bowl gouge that I use for roughing and a monster 1 1/4" roughing gouge for the big stuff. Skews have the hardest learning curve but once mastered, they are the choice tool for spindle work. I haven't taken the time to learn to use my skews....

I would add a detail gouge and a parting tool.

Do not attempt to hollow out a bowl with a flat tang spindle gouge. They WILL eventually break. I know that first hand (lessons from the self taught).

Doug Thompson at Thompson Lathe Tools is my first choice. 1) because he makes and sells quality tools at a reasonable price and 2) Doug is a friend and just a heck of a good person

I don't own any D-Way tools but they constantly get good reviews. I still own and use a bunch of full sized Sorby and still like them a lot, but I wish the steel would hold an edge as long as the Thompsons.

Good luck and ask all the questions you need. The Creek is an excellent resource to learn more about woodturning.

[Mike Holbrook]

Thanks for the input guys. I was just watching Cindy Drozda's video on making handles for turning tools. I also have the PDF for Peter Galbert's new chairmaking book. Peter's four top choices for chair making tools are: 1) 3/4" roughing gouge 2) 1/8" diamond parting tool 3) 3/4" oval skew 4) 3/8" detail gouge. I think I will check out Cindy's web site, apparently she makes tools that the owner can make handles for, which seems like a good way to get some practice and wind up with something useful.

Scot posted while I was posting, thanks Scott. I noted reading further in Galbert's book that he roughs out chair legs with a 2" roughing gouge, more like what Drew Lagsner had at the class I just attended. It seemed odd to me that Dave at D-Way only offers a 1/2" roughing tool. Looking at the tool on his page it actually looks like it is made from a solid piece of steel which according to the guy I talked to at WoodCraft actually makes it a bowl gouge. I think Scott is giving me the reason why.

[Roger Chandler]

You say you have the sharpening skills ...........being a beginner, do you have a gouge sharpening system like the Oneway Wolverine system? It is the standard that the great majority of turners use. Sharpening with a CBN wheel is a very good way to go, but you also need the jigs to get the correct grinds on gouges unless you are planning to free-hand sharpen......it can be done with a platform, but the most consistent way, especially for a new turner is to get the Wolverine system........it works all the time, every time, and will allow you to get better results than being all over the place with angles and such, as those will affect your success and the quality of the items you get off the lathe.

Things to consider.........yep, this turning thing has a lot of specialty and specific tools that are needed! My apologies to your wallet!

http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/...em-4-Piece-Set

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Most manufacturers make unhandled tools. The trend these days is to buy handles separately and the cutting tool is held in with set screws of collet. I like them because removing the tool for sharpening makes that process easier.

[Reed Gray]

Well, one can never have too many tools... There are spindle roughing gouges from both Doug and Dave (D Way) that are machined from solid bar stock, and I think 3/4 inch. If I was doing a lot of spindle roughing, I would want some thing bigger, but I prefer bigger and heavier tools. I did Concrete work for too many hears, and prefer over built to under built. I am not positive, but I think Cindy Drozda's tools are from Stuart Batty, or Doug, but I am fairly sure they are the same V 10 metal. The oval skew is a tool that some love and some hate. I think by far, most prefer the flat bar skew chisels. They don't rock as you turn, and are easier to sharpen. A bowl gouge can do a lot of things, and is a really good tool to have on hand, especially when farther down the road you get curious about bowls. Same with scrapers. Both are pretty versatile. A detail gouge for beads and coves, and getting into tiny places. A parting tool, plus a bedan or sizing tool which has a square shaft and is wider than the standard parting tool. For handles, I prefer straight wood handles, large diameter, and no bumps or humps in them. The advantage to metal tools, and now some collets for the wood handles is being able to take the cutting part of the tool out for travel, or for platform/free hand sharpening. A good chuck can come in handy on spindles tool.

robo hippy

[Thom Sturgill]

I would agree - add a bowl gouge rather than substitute even though I posted about using a bowl gouge. I know experienced turners who normally do ALL roughing with a bowl gouge because it is what is at hand. D-Way and Thompson both make milled rather than forged SRGs - naturally in smaller sizes, Doug has a 1 1/4" and Dave's is about 3/4".

As to the difference between gouge types (I think this ought to be a sticky) classic English and European (German) spindle gouges are also forged. These gouges are measured edge to edge and English manufactured milled gouges are also. American milled gouges are sold based on the bar stock diameter so an English 1/4" gouge is about the same size as an American 3/8" gouge. To confuse matters more American vendors *sometimes* sell the English gouges marked as if they are American.

Modern spindle gouges have a round flute that is cut to a depth of half the diameter of the bar. Typically ground at an angle between 35-45 degrees.

A 'true' detail gouge has a shallower flute and is typically ground 25-35 degrees. Some grind the above tool to that angle and call it a detail gouge.

A modern bowl gouge can have a V, U, or parabolic flute that is somewhere around half the depth of the bar. Often ground anywhere from 40-75 degrees.

Another issue you raised is steel. First not all HSS are equal. Even if M2 is specified there can be considerable differences in how the heat treating is done.

Jerry Glaser introduced the turning world to crucible steels and GlaserHitec sells a line of gouges with as high as 15% vanadium.
Dave at D-Way and Carter and Sons both use M42 which adds some vanadium but mainly Cobalt to provide better wear resistance. Doug Thompson uses steel with a higher vanadium content (about 11-12 percent I believe.)

IMNSHO, crucible steel require that CBN wheel you said that you have. M2 does not.

[Mike Holbrook]

Roger, I am currently using a modified Lee Valley sliding tool rest and a SB Tools, Large Round Platform bought from Woodworkers Emporium. I also have the SB Tools Angle gauge that is designed to help set the various angles for woodturning bevels. I am aware of the Wolverine system and tried to contact Robo Hippy about a tool rest that I think he stopped offering for sale. I am still playing around with my tool rests, in terms of working with curved edges. I sharpen scorps, drawknives, travishers, spokeshaves, adzes, axes, 6-8" radius plane blades, all sorts of gouges....I think the profiles on the gouges and curved blade hand tools I use are relatively similar to turning tools. I like sharpening by hand when I can figure out good/fast ways to do it. If it turns out I need the Wolverine system I will figure out how to mount one someplace. I have a 120 grit D-Way CBN wheel and a 220 grit "4 in 1" CBN from WoodTurner's Wonders mounted on a Delta Variable speed grinder. I have round, triangle and flat ceramic stones and round and oval Ez-Lap sharpening steels with diamonds. I have Diamond plates as well. I am new to turning but not to sharpening woodworking tools in many different shapes.

Great info. Thom. I will look into the vendors you mention.

[Scott Hackler]

Reed (robo hippy) still makes and sells the RoboRest. I bought one while at the symposium in Phoenix and I really like it. Much better than the factory Wolverine flat rest.

[Mike Holbrook]

Great Scott, is there a web site? I could not find him on SMC a ways back, but he is obviously posting on threads here now and so I have the real name as well. Dave at D-Way suggested I look him up. I had asked Dave about rests when I ordered my CBN wheel. Maybe he was just out of stock at that time. I think he hand makes his rest. I have tracking dogs, I will track him down ;-)

[Scott Hackler]

Just send a Private Message to Reed Gray and he should get back to you soon.

[Lee Reep]

Scott is right about the difficulty in mastering the skew. My heart would race every time I'd pick up my skew, after having catches at the seemingly least likely time while turning. I stumbled upon this video by Brendan Stemp. It really helped me. I have mostly done pens, and then branched out to other "spindles" -- tool handles, pepper mills, etc. I want to try making bowls, so I bought a bowl gouge (unhandled of course -- I like to make spindles!), and I made this handle and used the skew exclusively, except to turn down the brass ferrule, For that, I used a scraper. In the past, I'd try to use the skew, then switch to a scraper when I got nervous (!), or maybe use a carbide tool. But there is nothing like the smooth finish you get with a skew.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMIwqFDMIhA


bowl-gouge1.jpg

[Lee Reep]

[...]
It seemed odd to me that Dave at D-Way only offers a 1/2" roughing tool. Looking at the tool on his page it actually looks like it is made from a solid piece of steel which according to the guy I talked to at WoodCraft actually makes it a bowl gouge. I think Scott is giving me the reason why.

Mike,

I jsut received a spindle gouge and parting tool from D-Way Tools, so I noticed your comment about the roughing gouge. It is actually slightly over 3/4" (.767"). The shank is turned down to 1/2" to fit a 1/2" socket. I was considering it, but decided I'd already spent enough this month (I also have a Festool Domino on its way ...).

The spindle gouge and parting tool from D-Way are very nice. I've made my own very narrow parting tools but decided to give his a try. I am starting to replace my starter tools with quality ones. The gouge is scary sharp from Dave -- ready to use. I've not turned anything with them yet because I need to make handles for them.