Festool Domino DF 500

[Richard Carner]

I apologize in advance if this topic has come up before. I'm about ready to spring for a DF 500. I have 'concluded' that it would be a much more versatile machine re: case goods, etc. As long as I am fanning out the money, I am also pondering whether to go ahead and purchase the $295 assorted Domino Beach Sustainer Kit. The various size bits alone cost @$200. My main concern is whether or not [2] 4mm x 10mm tenons will be robust enough when applied to an apron/table leg combo. I have two tables to build - @64" long x 35" wide. Anyone have any experiences using the largest tenons for table construction? I'm really reluctant to spring for the larger XL. TIA.

[Prashun Patel]

I have owned both. I recently sold my DF500 in favor of the DF700.

I made a couple tables with the largest (10mm) tenons that the DF500 made. They were fine. Where the DF700 excels is in the ability to make deeper tenons than the DF500 can. It is also a little more stable in the vertical position (like when making tenons in the middle of a panel) than is the DF500.

The DF700 has a larger offset capability than the DF500, but the DF500 has dovetailed plastic stops that can actually be removed which allow the vertical offset fence to be moved more than the factory max depth setting, so there is a workaround.

I find the DF700 is more stable and marginally less prone to move when drilling than is the DF500. But this is splitting hairs; the DF500 is amazing; you just have to concentrate and hold it tight.

You can always drill your mortises with the DF500 at the widest setting and make your own tenons. Multiple, wide, parallel 10mm mortises will be pretty darn strong for many applications.

To this end, I would make my own tenons. They are easy to do and can be made with scrap. You just have to develop a reliable system for it so you can mill and bevel or round them over consistently. I tend to true mine up with a handplane for a perfect fit.

Instead of buying a $200 systainer and assorted tenons that you may never use, I would instead buy a good hose and adapter so you can dust collect properly. This is a must for accurate mortises.

Last, you can purchase the CMT cutters for 1/2 price of the Festool ones. Check AMZN.

[Richard Carner]

I have owned both. I recently sold my DF500 in favor of the DF700.

I made a couple tables with the largest (10mm) tenons that the DF500 made. They were fine. Where the DF700 excels is in the ability to make deeper tenons than the DF500 can. It is also a little more stable in the vertical position (like when making tenons in the middle of a panel) than is the DF500.

Yes I have heard that the platform the 700 has is much for stable thus the cuts are less prone to error. Your name is familiar so perhaps you were the one I recall mentioning this.

The DF700 has a larger offset capability than the DF500, but the DF500 has dovetailed plastic stops that can actually be removed which allow the vertical offset fence to be moved more than the factory max depth setting, so there is a workaround.

I find the DF700 is more stable and marginally less prone to move when drilling than is the DF500. But this is splitting hairs; the DF500 is amazing; you just have to concentrate and hold it tight.

Understood.

You can always drill your mortises with the DF500 at the widest setting and make your own tenons. Multiple, wide, parallel 10mm mortises will be pretty darn strong for many applications.

To this end, I would make my own tenons. They are easy to do and can be made with scrap. You just have to develop a reliable system for it so you can mill and bevel or round them over consistently. I tend to true mine up with a handplane for a perfect fit.

Yes this is appealing to me. After all we are woodworkers and fabricators! Do you still use birch or some alternative wood for fabricating your tenons? As well, do you bother to score the sides of each tenon?

Instead of buying a $200 systainer and assorted tenons that you may never use, I would instead buy a good hose and adapter so you can dust collect properly. This is a must for accurate mortises.

This is valuable advice that I will heed. I have been considering the CT MIDI Dust Extractor. However like most Festool equipment it is a bit pricing weighing at @$525. Would you perhaps suggest an alternative?

Last, you can purchase the CMT cutters for 1/2 price of the Festool ones. Check AMZN.

Ah... Thanks for that tip. Aside from several other questions that I raised within your quotes, I have this one: Isn't the 700 'limited' to stock that is 3/4" and wider? TIA

[James Zhu]

You can use shop vac with the domino, this Bosch hose ( http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-VAC005-5...s=Bosch+VAC005 ) fits the domino.

Paul Marcel did a very good comparison between 500 and 700.

http://www.halfinchshy.com/search/la...28Domizilla%29

[Prashun Patel]

The Festool or Fein dust extractors are supposed to be top notch. I however, own a Ridgid shop vac and Dust Deputy, which I highly recommend. These 'preseparating' solutions keep the filters on your shopvac clean and therefore the suction up. The only downside is that they can be tippy, so you'll have to make some kind of reliable stand for it. Moving the two pieces (shopvac and preseparator) can be a pain, but the performance boost is IMHO worth it. I have 2 such set ups.

I make my tenons out of beech because I have extra stock. It's my prejudice that ash, oak, and beech make strong tenons. However, I will say that I 'cheat' sometimes and make them from walnut or cherry scraps if my project is daintier and doesn't need the insurance.

I am uncertain if the DF700 is limited to 3/4". The only stuff I'm doing < 3/4" tends to be cases, boxes or drawers for which I use some other means of connecting.

You can use this hose:
PORTER-CABLE 73333

[Jim German]

I got the domino assortment in the systainer, partly because its nice to have everything in the systainers and because of the cost of the bits. I've found that having an assortment of dominos meant that I used them in situations I wouldn't have otherwise if I had to make the domino or go out and specially buy one.

[Matt Krusen]

I bought the Domino assortment as well. Granted, I didn't know about the CMT bits but even so I still would have bought it. Like Jim said, I find myself using Dominos more than I normally would just because I have the assorted sizes available. Also, my shop time is limited so for me it is worth the cost to buy the pre made Dominos. With regards to 500 vs 700, think long term what type of projects you'll be doing most often. The 500 will work for tables, in fact I am using it for a huge farm table coming up soon. The 500 is also the right size for more "normal" sized projects such as casework, shelves, dressers, small tables etc. However, if you will be doing a lot of big tables, beds, etc then the 700 is probably the way to go. Whichever you decide, the Domino is a game changer and you'll never regret your purchase!

[Chris Padilla]

I dunno about making one's own tenons. It is pretty nice and fast to just open the box and pull out what you want and get going on the project. I would have to set up my router table (which is likely set up with something else) and futz with it to get my tenons just right but each to their own. I have the DF500 from way back when and it has replaced quite a few tools in my shop. I use it for darn near everything. And when Festool came out with the 4 mm cutter/tenons, I jumped for joy as I used those A LOT now. I don't really make anything large enough to need tenons any larger than what the 500 can handle. I did make a large cedar gate once but I cut my own mortises with the router table and made my own tenons for that project but that has been it for the need so far.

[Richard Carner]

The Festool or Fein dust extractors are supposed to be top notch. I however, own a Ridgid shop vac and Dust Deputy, which I highly recommend. These 'preseparating' solutions keep the filters on your shopvac clean and therefore the suction up. The only downside is that they can be tippy, so you'll have to make some kind of reliable stand for it. Moving the two pieces (shopvac and preseparator) can be a pain, but the performance boost is IMHO worth it. I have 2 such set ups.

I make my tenons out of beech because I have extra stock. It's my prejudice that ash, oak, and beech make strong tenons. However, I will say that I 'cheat' sometimes and make them from walnut or cherry scraps if my project is daintier and doesn't need the insurance.

I am uncertain if the DF700 is limited to 3/4". The only stuff I'm doing < 3/4" tends to be cases, boxes or drawers for which I use some other means of connecting.

You can use this hose:
PORTER-CABLE 73333

Okay Prashun,
Thanks for all of these additional tidbits. I did just find out that one can have the best of both worlds. As it turns out Seneca Woodworking has made a nifty adapter for the 700 that will allow the person to use insert cutting bits from 4mm/5mm/6mm/8mm/10mm! Festools carries this adapter on their company site. https://www.festoolproducts.com/Sene...er-for-fes.htm Based on this news, I think I will take the plunge and purchase the 700.

[Wade Lippman]

I rarely use 10mm, I doubt I would ever use anything larger. The 500 is a handful, glad I don't have the 700. YMMV.
I have made my own dominoes, but when Festool's are perfect and not terribly expensive, I never did it again. YMMV
I have a dyson canister vacuum with a dust deputy. Seems like a perfect combination to me.

[Richard Carner]

You can use shop vac with the domino, this Bosch hose ( http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-VAC005-5...s=Bosch+VAC005 ) fits the domino.

Paul Marcel did a very good comparison between 500 and 700.

http://www.halfinchshy.com/search/la...28Domizilla%29

Thanks James. I'm on it.

[Richard Carner]

Thanks Jim.

[Richard Carner]

I bought the Domino assortment as well. Granted, I didn't know about the CMT bits but even so I still would have bought it. Like Jim said, I find myself using Dominos more than I normally would just because I have the assorted sizes available. Also, my shop time is limited so for me it is worth the cost to buy the pre made Dominos. With regards to 500 vs 700, think long term what type of projects you'll be doing most often. The 500 will work for tables, in fact I am using it for a huge farm table coming up soon. The 500 is also the right size for more "normal" sized projects such as casework, shelves, dressers, small tables etc. However, if you will be doing a lot of big tables, beds, etc then the 700 is probably the way to go. Whichever you decide, the Domino is a game changer and you'll never regret your purchase!

I'd really like the best of both worlds and may have found it. Marc Spagnuolo did an article titled: "Domino DF500 vs Domino XL DF700 – Which is Right for Me"? http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/arti...-right-for-me/. It was in the comment section that I found out that Seneca Woodworking had come out with an adapter that allows the 700 to perform with the same sized bits as the 500.

[Richard Carner]

I rarely use 10mm, I doubt I would ever use anything larger. The 500 is a handful, glad I don't have the 700. YMMV.
I have made my own dominoes, but when Festool's are perfect and not terribly expensive, I never did it again. YMMV
I have a dyson canister vacuum with a dust deputy. Seems like a perfect combination to me.

I'm getting a lot of good information about vacuum options. Thanks

[James Zhu]

Festools carries this adapter on their company site. https://www.festoolproducts.com/Sene...er-for-fes.htm Based on this news, I think I will take the plunge and purchase the 700.

That is not Festool website, it is a Festool dealer. I do not think Festool would recommend seneca 500 cutter adapter

I have 700, tenon assortments, Seneca 500 cutter adapter and Domi-shims for 700. All work perfectly.