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Sounds like I'm too late, but the only reason I picked up a #8 instead of a #7 was that I have a #6 and felt that the difference between the 7 and 6 wasn't enough to justify buying the 7. So, the 6 will serve as a short jointer, and when I get the 8 set up, it will serve as the long jointer.
[OP]
Member
I appreciate your kind offer, Eric. I'm only a couple of states away - in North Carolina - but don't know when I might be in Ohio. I daresay I would find a #7 to be plenty of iron, but happened to find a good deal on a 1940 #8. I have been curious about the LV scraper insert. Do you find it more effective than a hand scraper? I know the long sole helps keep your surface flat, but the fixed angle sounds problematic to me.
[OP]
Member
Well, Thomas, I was curious to know if there is much consensus on jointers, but not surprised to encounter a divergence of views. I can report that I'm getting translucent full-width shavings with Big Stan for less than a quarter of the price of a new LN #8, so I'm quite pleased with my choice.
[OP]
Member
I hope you will give us a report on the Sargent. I'm curious to know if they are much different in use from a Stanley.
Contributor
Howard, I'll jump in here, as I've just tuned up and started using a Sargent (branded Zenith) 22C jointer with the Shaw patent frog. One thing I keep forgetting is that its depth adjuster is reversed, i.e. turns clockwise to withdraw the blade. Also, I don't know if it's a stock adjusting knob, but it's quite tiny, and a bit of a pain to get ahold of. This is a picture of it before clean-up:Originally Posted by Howard Skillington
IMG_0314_lores.jpg
In use, it's pretty wonderful, though. No complaints.
Member
I have an early 5-1/2 with the narrow iron. It came to me with an iron sharpened to within 1/16" of the slot- it was done for. I had a heavy tapered iron from a woodie the right width so I set the plane to take it. It's tuned to be like a panel plane, a giant smoother, I guess. It works well, but I don't use it a lot.
Contributor
My knowledge on Sargent planes is very little. I do know that Stanley and some others started with right hand threads on the adjuster and then changed to left hand threads. Not sure if Sargent also changed the handedness of their adjusters.One thing I keep forgetting is that its depth adjuster is reversed, i.e. turns clockwise to withdraw the blade. Also, I don't know if it's a stock adjusting knob, but it's quite tiny, and a bit of a pain to get ahold of.
It does look like your adjuster might have been of an earlier two piece design and part of it went missing.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Contributor
Ah, very interesting, thanks, Jim. Do you know of any illustrations showing this two-piece design?
EDIT: I've found some pictures from old EBay auctions and such, but I can't find one that shows my little knob as part of a two-piece design. If anybody can shed any light on this, I'd be grateful. I don't expect I'll be lucky enough to find the missing part, but at least I'll understand things a little better.
Last edited by Phil Stone; 05-13-2015 at 6:51 PM.
Contributor
Sargent made both a "normal" style adjuster, that grew in size over the years. The one on my 3416 Trans. Jack is a bit tiny. The other style was called the Auto-set. Whole nother ball game, with a vertical post, and two wheels.
Have both a Millers Falls No. 14 and a Sargent #414 T-5.....haven't found any difference between them, other than the shape of the rear handle. Both have tall knobs out front.
Contributor
My knowledge on Sargent planes is very little to almost nonexistent. Some of the early Bailey planes had a two piece construction of the adjuster. This is from the type study at:Ah, very interesting, thanks, Jim. Do you know of any illustrations showing this two-piece design?
https://home.comcast.net/~rarebear/p...ing/typing.htm
The adjuster on Howard's plane looks to have a star configuration I have seen used in press fitting soft metals together. Not sure if Sargent did this or if it was something done by a previous owner who dropped the original adjuster down a rabbit hole.
Searching around there really isn't much of a type study on Sargent planes.
A search on > shaw's patent < turned up a few things. One of them was this:
http://www.brasscityrecords.com/tool...aws/shaws.html
The second picture shows the adjuster and it is right hand threaded. The adjuster nut pictured doesn't have the knurling that is visible on Howard's plane. Maybe someone has a spare.
BTW, my only Sargent plane besides my router plane is a transitional jointer. Just checked and surprise, surprise, surprise... it has a right hand threaded adjuster nut. Maybe someone with more recent Sargent planes can tell us if this was something Sargent stayed with until the end or if it was changed and when.
According to:
http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/shaws.htm
Shaw's patent was granted in 1906.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Contributor
not to get too far off-topic, but there's a good phot-heavy Sargent type study here: https://timetestedtools.wordpress.com/2012/08/10/sargent-planes-by-the-numberwith-pictures/
And lots of detailed sargent info here http://www.sargent-planes.com/
Many of the photos don't show the depth adjuster, but when they do, they all appear to be a larger diameter that what Phil has; although, if you look at the angle adjuster knob for their scraper planes (first link), it MIGHT be one of those, swapped out due to the same thread count. Considering how rarely a user would remove this knob, Jim's suggestion that it was a 2-part press-fit piece and it missing its flange makes more sense. Also seems that would be cheaper/ faster to produce than accurately milling a casting with 2 different diameters, at least in the early days.
Karl
Contributor
Let's seeIMAG0113.jpg
Left hand threads. There is a steel insert, inside the brass knurled ring. Have a newer 414...allsteel and large as a Millers Falls. The 3416 has a tiny , all brass knob of a wheel.
IMAG0075.jpgthat LOOKS like it has a steel insert.
Contributor
One thing of note is many of the brass adjusters on Stanley/Bailey planes seem to get worn in the groove where the fork/yoke lever rides. I have often noticed the threads have been worn. This may be from a lot of use over time or having the lever cap held down too tight. Maybe steel threads would have held up better with less backlash over time.LOOKS like it has a steel insert.
jtk
Last edited by Jim Koepke; 05-14-2015 at 4:42 PM. Reason: spelling
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Member
Heres a close up (please pardon the blobs of jb weld) of mine from a Sargent 18. And its all steal... Fridge magnet confirmed. Oh, and the depth adjuster turns CW to lower iron.
20150514160317.jpg 20150514160448.jpg 20150514160501.jpg
I got cash in my pocket. I got desire in my heart....
Contributor
Thank you for taking the time to make these photos, Judson. Can you tell, on the backside of the adjuster, is it two-piece, with something similar to mine (up above in this thread) inside the larger outer knob? (Howard, I must apologize how far afield this thread has gone! I hope you find it interesting).
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