50 watt and 1/4" Alder laser cuts

[Bert Kemp]

Basically Aron its the same ol same ol you get what you pay for. We all understand budget is a major concern for a lot of us, myself included. Everyone heres know my story, I went cheap the first time. Spent a lot of time and money trying to make a cheap machine run.It had no support and went things went bad and they did a lot I had no help from the company and spent more money trying to fix it. If you read the stories here and on other forums about all the downtime and all the money spent trying to get a junker to run right you'll find that if you saved a little more to get a better machine with decent support you'll be a lot happier in the end.

[Mike Null]

Adam

If you'll spend the time (a lot of time) reading through posts on this forum relative to Chinese made lasers you'll likely discover that Dave is like Ivory soap--99 and 44/100% pure.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Thanks for the kind words guys but there are a LOT of people here who know as much and likely more than I do about lasers, Dan Hintz, Matty Knott, Mike (above) Scotty Shepard, Dick Harman the list is almost endless

Me? I've just made a lot of mistakes and learned from them

[Scott Shepherd]

Dave, I can't think of too many people on here that can name the names of the people in the factories in China making these things, taking the orders, and running the companies. Much less having the private emails addresses of some of those people. I'd say your knowledge about the entire process is a long way from most people's, and we're thankful for the knowledge you share with us.

[Bert Kemp]

Adam if you clic on Daves name and then forum post's he has about 20 or more pages of posts to the forum , might save some time.

[Michael Davis4]

Hello Adam, Thunder Laser Mini 60 is a great choice. I how ever would order it with a 60 watt tube. I have both the Mini 60 60 watt and G Weike LG6040N 60 watt. The Thunder laser is a bit faster but both do a great job so far of every thing I have ask them to to. Both run RD Works and the Mini 60 you can also run Thunder Lasers LaserGrav software which is like RD works with a few more bells and whistles to it.

I don't know your budget but I would also add to which ever machine you buy an Extra Laser Tube, American Optics and Lens and order an extra set with the machine. Both companies if you request American Optics but from II-VI optics which is a US Company. Also it's a lot cheaper to buy these things from the manufacture and have it shipped with your unit then getting them later. Just my experience. If you have any other questions or concerns you can em me directly.

Michael Davis

[Bert Kemp]

I disagree with buying a spare tube. If you read the forums you'll find that tubes have a shelve life. They lose gas just sitting around also the warranty on tubes start on the date of mfg. So if you buy a spare the warranty is gone before you even put it in.

Hello Adam, Thunder Laser Mini 60 is a great choice. I how ever would order it with a 60 watt tube. I have both the Mini 60 60 watt and G Weike LG6040N 60 watt. The Thunder laser is a bit faster but both do a great job so far of every thing I have ask them to to. Both run RD Works and the Mini 60 you can also run Thunder Lasers LaserGrav software which is like RD works with a few more bells and whistles to it.

I don't know your budget but I would also add to which ever machine you buy an Extra Laser Tube, American Optics and Lens and order an extra set with the machine. Both companies if you request American Optics but from II-VI optics which is a US Company. Also it's a lot cheaper to buy these things from the manufacture and have it shipped with your unit then getting them later. Just my experience. If you have any other questions or concerns you can em me directly.

Michael Davis

[Adam Aron]

Hello Adam, Thunder Laser Mini 60 is a great choice. I how ever would order it with a 60 watt tube. I have both the Mini 60 60 watt and G Weike LG6040N 60 watt. The Thunder laser is a bit faster but both do a great job so far of every thing I have ask them to to. Both run RD Works and the Mini 60 you can also run Thunder Lasers LaserGrav software which is like RD works with a few more bells and whistles to it.

Hi Michael, Yes, I believe that I'm looking to get a 60-watt after all the helpful suggestions, more contemplation, and lots of reading (as was the admonition). One consideration I have left regarding wattage is that it's important that I get the cleanest, soot-free, jaggy-free cuts on thick paper that I can. I've already gleaned some excellent tips on this from other forum contributors, such as modifying the air assist with a pressure regulator (variable release valve) to get the minimum air pressure necessary while avoiding blowing soot down onto the paper surface. Do you think I'll be able to fine-tune the laser power on a 60-watt Chinese tube down to levels I'll need for avoiding burn marks on cardstock paper? Would there be any benefit to getting a lower wattage tube for more reliable fine tuning at a lower power level?

I like the smaller size of the Thunder Laser Mini60 and what I've seen of the LaserGrav software. One concern I still have about Thunder Laser is the servo motors. Sure, they are fast, but I will be doing hardly any engraving -- mostly vector cutting. I primarily want accurate, smooth, and reliable vectors cuts (mostly paper, wood veneer) without extra maintenance routines or costs, so I'm wondering if I should go for a micro-stepper machine instead. Do you have the newer Mini60-Plus, with the servo motors? And are you finding that you need to maintain the servos on a regular basis (e.g. cleaning encoder strips)?

I don't know your budget but I would also add to which ever machine you buy an Extra Laser Tube, American Optics and Lens and order an extra set with the machine.

I'm intentionally withholding details of my budget. Sorry if that is inconvenient, but I think you get the general budget range if I am currently researching the Thunder, Jinan King Rabbit, and Shenhui machines with up to 60-watt lasers and 600 x 400mm engraving areas. As for ordering "American Optics and Lens," I'm not sure what you mean. Aren't lenses part of the laser optics? You think I should ask to purchase American made lenses and mirrors from the Chinese manufacturers?

I'm not going to stock an extra tube, so I'm with Bert on that idea. Of course it makes sense to order more extras for no additional shipping cost. I'm with you there...

~Adam

[Frank barry]

Hi Adam I would suggest you get some samples cut as only you know what you want and the quality you require that is the advantage of working with someone like rabbit I am sure there are others also Cheers Frank

[Bill George]

Hi Adam I would suggest you get some samples cut as only you know what you want and the quality you require that is the advantage of working with someone like rabbit I am sure there are others also Cheers Frank

I would second that suggestion. If your needing a machine for a certain purpose and your set on a lower cost Chinese laser I would get samples cut from the US Vender. Sounds like your interested in precision cutting of fabric and paper. Servos are faster or can be faster if needed, steppers not as fast but get the job done.

[Scott Shepherd]

You might also note that "paper" is not one thing. Paper varies a HUGE amount. Different weights, different finishes, different ingredients, etc. Just because you can cut one paper with no soot or charring doesn't transfer across the entire line of paper products. Papers are very tricky and very fickle in my opinion. It's quite easy to tell someone you can do something in paper, only to have them bring you paper that doesn't laser well. My hats off to those that deal with a lot of paper. It's a skill, an art, and a craft. Knowing which papers will react in what ways is the key and that's something that comes with years of experience.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Hi Adam,

One consideration I have left regarding wattage is that it's important that I get the cleanest, soot-free, jaggy-free cuts on thick paper that I can

That sounds like an easy question but in reality it's not,

The bigger the tube (higher power) the smaller the final spot size will be but the higher the power density will be. The problem with paper is it's yield temperature (around 430F) the problem is a laser is able to induce heat literally hundreds of times that figure so you are always fighting the potential for fire rather than cutting.
Two ways round it, you can either reduce the power of the tube or increase the speed. That's the problem, the tube has a minimum strike power of roughly 12% once it's settled in and a peak useful speed of around 60 to 80mm per second so the minimum power can often require more than the maximum speed to keep cuts clean.
Most far eastern laser makers will tell you cutting at 1,000mm per second is possible....it's not, the head weighs too much and the motors don't have the power to make sharp direction changes due to inertial energy leading to loss of tail on corners (try cornering in a ford focus at 80 mph to get the idea)
The overall beam profile of a DC fired tube is nowhere near what an RF laser can produce so definition on fine work often comes with it's own problems.
The single biggest problem will be the actual material, Paper/card varies so much in it's makeup very often a given paper may not actually be possible to cut without staining or soot marks no matter what you do.

Jit Patel on here is the master of all things papercut and from memory uses a Trotech speedy as his foray into Chinese made machines for paper cutting didn't end well. Given Jit's extensive experience with paper and his choice of a single £40,000 machine rather than 10x £4,000 machines seems to just about cover it.

Optics

Yes lens's and mirrors made by II-VI are superior quality to Chinese generic stuff although it can be akin to fitting a set of $2,000 tires on a car that has a top speed of 50 mph. On a $10,000 machine you would see a noticeable quality benefit, on a $4,000 machine it won't really make any difference.

without extra maintenance routines or costs

I'm likely one of the most vocal supporters of Chinese made lasers you will find on here and even I accept that they come with more problems than Western made machines, they are rarely if ever problem free and always require significant user maintenance to keep them working at the peak of what you need.

My personal opinion? for medium to larger scale paper cutting the Mini 60 is the wrong machine to buy.

[Frank barry]

Hi If i am correct there was a very detailed post on cutting paper a few month back
in my opinion if you know exactly what you want a machine to do it make it easy but it means you need samples done from a place you trust to be honest its even better if you can see them being done then you you will answer many of the questions again Adam you will find you will get much clearer answers on here it people have a clear understanding of what you need an opinion on as there are many on here who have been there and done it and are more than happy to help cheers Frank

[Bert Kemp]

Adam
your more then welcome to bring a bunch of sheets of the paper you want to use and we can work and tweak to see what my rabbit will do. We did one piece of heavy card stock and it cut pretty clean for a one shot deal no tweaking and me just guessing at a setting to try it at.

[Michael Davis4]

Good day Adam, If you will contact Amy at thunder Laser and submit a request as to what you want them to test on the machine she will be more then happy to test the material and send you a video of the test with the settings used. Also to answer your question. Yes you will be able to dial down the 60 watt tube to cut paper and card stock with out a problem. For 80 lb card stock I use a setting of 20% power and 60MM/Sec speed and have zero burn marks. Also I have the New Mini 60 with the servo motors and controllers. I love it. I too had a time deciding between servo and stepper motors. I have one of both. My G. Weike has stepper motors and my Mini 60 has servo motors. I have found no extra work in having ether one. Both machines are 600x400 work area.
If you don't specify American Optics and Lens you are going to get Chinese Optics and lens. As I said both buy from II-VI Optics for there american lens. The down side to not ordering them is you well just end up doing it later on anyway and spend more money. Too me it just made since. Also after going through the Import headaches once I learned a lot the first time around. If you haven't done it yet, Get a Good Customs Broker onboard now before you ever send a penny to China. I wish someone would have told me this sooner. They are worth there weight in the little bit of money they will save you. Also be sure you understand that the price you are quoted for shipping is not all you are going to end up paying. There will be additional money's required, more then just customs fee's and taxes. Usually the price you are quoted for shipping is just to get your machine from the factory in China to the first port of unloading in the US. You are then going to be charged to have you machine De-Stuffed from it's container, Re-stuffed into another container and then trucked or rail shipped to where it's going to clear customs, Storage fee's while it sits in a warehouse waiting for customs clearance and then any delivery fee's on top of that plus Customs Fee, and Broker Fee's. And I left out if you live in Florida you are then on the hook for Sales and Usage tax if you are using it for a business.

Sorry for the long response. I hope this helps a little.

Michael Davis