Premium lathes for spindles and small-medium bowls?

[Mike Holbrook]

I talked to Brent at Robust today and he cleared a few things up for me. He explained that in most cases the sliding head on a Liberty or American Beauty provides the ability to turn bowls on the end of the lathe, using a small portion of the far end of the lathe for banjo support/tool rest.. Only if the turner wants to turn large bowls where turning completely off the end provides additional space do additional tool rest accessories come in to play. He also explained, as Bob mentions above, that the short bed Sweet 16 was specifically designed at the suggestion of a well known turner so bowls could be turned from the end or both sides of the frame. The short bed has 16" between spindles, 30" using the gap as an extension. I think the Oneway 1224 or 1640 will require additional parts to turn bowls on the outboard side of their fixed heads, bringing their total cost closer to the Robust lathes. The short bed Robust Sweet 16 appears to be the most compact at 35.5" The gap feature on the Sweet 16 allows it to handle 32" bowls and 30" spindles on the one small compact machine.

[Dale Bonertz]

As Reed has mentioned I turn on a vicmarc. If you look at turners who do the type of turning I do and in volume they turn on fixed headstock lathes. Mike Mahoney, Glenn Lucas and I (feels weird to put my name next to those two since they are much better turners than I am) turn on vicmarc's (probably the least bells and whistles lathe but the biggest work horse of a lathe). David Lancaster (now retired I think) turned on another work horse the Oneway 2436, if I recall correctly. The stainless steel bed versus the cast iron bed is an old debate and both have there attributes and pitfalls. The cast iron can rust if you let it. I have turned thousands of wet bowls on mine and there is no rust. Wipe it down after each session and use WD40 and scotchbrite pads if necessary. There are two types of stainless steel processes from what I found in researching. One has less of a chance to rust and the other may rust. I am not sure which Robust uses. The one that can rust is more of a surface stainless process in which if it gets scratched it will oxidize or rust in the scratch. Stainless can also warp and deform easier than cast iron. Cast iron also absorbs vibration more. Now how much those differences make in our level of uses is what people debate. Personally I don't feel that any of that makes much of a difference, at all, and it is left to the manufacturer in what they feel is important as a sales feature of their product. Either stainless or iron you'll be wiping it down to get rid of the wet wood pitch and wet chunks stuck on the bed ways.

The fixed headstock versus sliding headstock is another ongoing topic, like the cast iron versus stainless topic, in which people are passionate about their choices. I personally feel for the way I use my machine that I need a fixed headstock. With the outboard bed attachments, like vicmarc and oneway offer, are in my opinion the way to go. I feel this makes my machine a much more reliable machine. I have worked with industrial, professional and hobby wood working equipment for over thirty years so my opinions are skewed by experience with heavier equipment. Anytime you have the most important part of a piece of equipment that moves you are introducing potential issues. I bold potential because that is key. I feel for the way that most turners turn that a sliding headstock probably won't become an issue, for me and my use I won't take that chance.

I think it is great that you are doing a lot of research into what will work best for you. Don't buy what seems popular on this site or any other for that matter since it is a very small sampling of the larger woodturning community. I see so many buy a lathe that they feel will work for them only to see them upgrade within three years. I feel like Wally when people say they are buying the last lathe they will ever need. When the next new feature designer lathe comes out or they find they want to turn something they didn't think, three years ago, they wanted to turn is when they will buy the next lathe.

In my opinion folks should consider what they think they will need and then buy the next lathe up to ensure they have enough machine for future endeavors (finances considered). So if you are looking at the Sweat 16 and that price range then get the stripped model of the AB or Oneway or Vicmarc and add accessories as needed, unless you can afford them now and you have a very good understanding on what you turn (again finances considered).

[Mike Holbrook]

Wise thoughts I think Dave. I almost bought a Oneway 1224 or 1236 a few months ago but put off the purchase because of physical, financial and time constraints. I was also thinking, like you mention above, that I might want to buy a notch or two above what I thought I needed. I use lots of tools on a regular basis. For me personally I like to buy top notch tools. I find that when I buy a limited tool I am not satisfied, often buy something else but eventually just end up buying the better tool. The qualifier for me has to do with my individual work style. For example, I have never liked table saws, I much prefer a Festool saw/multifunction table and my collection of hand operated saws and miter boxes. For me, the Festool saw & accessories just allow me to do more construction and woodworking chores in a safer more dust free environment. I may have as much invested in Festool gear as a good table saw would cost. The Festools help me in more of my work and make the entire process more enjoyable for me.

I think I am looking for a lathe that, like the festools, will allow me to get more done and enjoy the process more. My shop was originally designed to function more in a construction project capacity. I have plumbing tools and supplies, electrical tools and supplies and painting/finishing tools and supplies... housed in the same rooms as my woodworking tools... hand tools and power tools. I can't see me having the collection of lathes that some posters have. I am looking for a single very versatile lathe that can do a great many things well. At the same time I don't want a tool like the Shop Smith my dad bought many years ago that took up lots of space and in my experience took lots of time to set up to do a kinda half decent job attempting to replace multiple machines.

My shop space is broken up between three rooms, most of which I have plans for. I have walls with tool hanging panels, StoreWall, already attached. A small machine like the Oneway 1224 or a Sweet 16 short bed will be much easier to fit into available space. A machine like the Oneway 200 series or 1640, Robust American Beauty or even the Liberty, especially with additions to the outboard side of a fixed or sliding motor will be hard to work into available space. At this point in time the Sweet 16 short bed sounds like it would fit my needs the best, if I can justify the expense.

[Reed Gray]

Perhaps another difference/advantage to the sliding headstock vs fixed headstock is that the sliding headstock can be put in a corner, which is where mine has always been.

robo hippy

[Jack Mincey]

Mike, Will you be able to turn 36" legs on a short bed lathe? By the time you put a spindle between centers it takes almost all the bed on my 1640 to turn a 36" spindle.
Jack

[Geoff Whaling]

Mike, Dale has some pretty good advice. Unfortunately the conversion from $US to $AUD means that we rarely see north American made lathes here, I don’t know of any Robusts or Oneway’s here. So my experience may seem parochial when it is not. The fact is we only really have the Rikon 70-500 (Woodfast M910) & mini’s, the Nova DVR’s, Jets, Laguna & Australian manufactured Vicmarc & Stubby lathes in common in both market places plus some generic brands.

While most modern lathes in the class you are looking at are pretty good all rounders they still have features and origins as either a face plate or spindle lathe. Some will perform far better in one aspect or the other. If you consider most of your turning is spindle then a fixed head stock lathe is pretty much a fundamental "must have" feature, one less range of potential hazards, alignment and wear issues. Rotating & sliding head stocks offer significant benefits for face plate turners. Vicmarc's proven VL175 and new VL240 are pretty good rotating head stock lathes and have a loyal following among bowl turners here in Oz.

Not long back, I went through what you are going through now, I desired a new lathe. I already owned a Nova Mercury mini, & long bed 1992 Australian manufactured Woodfast M908 (16" x 32" approx) retrofitted with the M910 EVS motor (Rikon 70-500) equivalent to a Vicmarc VL200. The M908 also has the outboard turning attachments.

Both lathes are great for their purpose, though the Mercury is ageing fast. The M908 is still a fantastic lathe but had one minor niggle with a bit of slop in the ways making precision boring a chore. That one issue really annoyed me with fine spindle work I do, but is unimportant for bowl or larger spindle turning.

After lots of research and some hard critical evaluation I purchased what was best for me, a Vicmarc VL150 with extension bed (for latter), with a much smaller capacity than my main lathe. Too small for big work but also a bit to big to be considered a portable mini. How often do I turn a 12” bowl? How often do I attend collaboration style events? Not enough to really influence my decision and bias towards small spindle turning.

The VL150 was well over twice the price of its nearest competitor’s lathe that best suited my turning style. The competitor also ran a very distant second when I seriously considered quality & specifications. Other serious contenders included the Woodfast 305 (Rikon), Nova Comet, Stubby 750, VL240, another Woodfast M910 & Nova DVR. The DVR had some serious niggles that I could not live with but was really excluded due to unknown but potential EMI issues with proximity of the motor to my defibrillator. Fortunately through wood turning acquaintances I have had reliable advice & experience plus been able to test drive most of them. One day I might get on Ken Wraights Stubby lathe. (sigh!)

Price was a serious consideration but I’m well prepared for retirement, still under 60 & I’ve worked long & hard enough to now enjoy some of the finer things in life within limits. I doubt some of the competitors lathes will be running in 10 years time whereas I know the Vicmarc and Stubby will be still running trouble free in 30 years time.

My point, it is great to listen to others experience but in the end you have to live within your means, and with the lathes idiosyncrasies. I would strongly recommend taking the time to locate a turner/s locally who own the lathe/s you short list and see if they will share their experience and perhaps a test drive. Well worth the effort when you are spending $5k or more.

[Mike Holbrook]

Thanks for your thoughts Reed,Jack & Geoff.
I am mostly interested in chair parts. The longest spindle on the Continuous Arm Windsor I made is a little over 23". I make all the longer spindles with drawknives & spokeshaves. Sometimes the spindles under the arms of Windsors or Rusitc Windsors are turned but the longest I have made is about 13". My main interest in turning spindles is for chair legs and rungs. The longest legs I have made so far are 19-20". Even adding a few extra inches for stock before it is cut down I can't imagine needing the ability to turn more than 24" for chairs. I'm sure guys turn longer legs for tables. Measuring table legs at my house the longest are around 30". I think if I were to make a table and want legs I would probably go with something square or octagonal, cutting tapered blanks on the band saw and working them with hand planes.

At least at this time I am having a hard time imagining needing to turn spindles longer than 24". The Oneway 1224 might be a little small with it's 24" spindle capacity but I think the 30" of space on a short Robust Sweet 16 would work fine for me. Certainly the Sweet 16's ability to turn a 32" bowl or platter vs the Oneway's 12.5" limitation might prove an advantage. The Sweet 16 can also be bought with a 1.5 or 2hp motor vs the 1hp on the Oneway. I like the Oneway 1640 but adding an outboard extension to the longer frame of this machine winds up making a long lathe to fit into my shop and maneuver around. I am still calculating the dimensions & cost of a 1640 with outboard bowl turning capability. To get a lathe that large into my shop would require swapping around a couple work areas and it still might not fit well. I am still calculating on how to work that machine into a large enough space though. The fact that a Oneway 1640, with outboard tool rest, allows one to do both spindles and bowls without having to make changes to the frame of the machine is an attractive feature.

I am looking for a lathe that, like my Festools, will allow me to get more done and enjoy the process more. My shop was originally designed to function more in a construction project capacity. I have plumbing tools and supplies, electrical tools and supplies, framing tools and supplies, painting/finishing tools and supplies... housed in the same rooms as my woodworking tools... hand tools and power tools. I can't see me having the collection of lathes that some posters have as my shop is designed to pursue a diverse range of projects making space a premium concern. I am looking for a single very versatile lathe that can do a great many things well. At the same time I don't want a tool like the Shopsmith my dad bought many years ago that took up lots of space and in my experience took lots of time to set up to do a kinda half decent job attempting to replace multiple machines.

At the moment the short Sweet 16 is sounding great if I decide to spring for the higher price. The Sweet 16 is a foot shorter than a Oneway 1224 and weighs close to twice as much. With the cut away repositioned, a short Sweet 16 can handle longer spindles than a Oneway 1224 and bowls or platters that are larger than even a Oneway 1640 can handle with an outboard tool rest. I think it might provide the ease of use of the small Oneway machine in a more versatile machine. Even with the gap installed as a bed extension the Sweet 16 is 49.5" long vs 60" for a Oneway 1640, without outboard tool rest, and it is still not much longer than the 47" Oneway 1224.

I talked to Brent and Oneway about seeing/getting hands on with lathes. Now that I am figuring out specific models they may be able to help me better. I am also planing to talk to Woodworkers Emporium about Vicmark lathes. I need to talk to Chris I think. Unfortunately Chris has proven to be a hard man to catch.