electrical questions

[greg Forster]

Duke Energy will run Triplex underground either direct burial or in conduit depending on amount of rocks install crew finds, from pole to new 200 amp meter/disconnect combo on side of my house.( I have 60amp service now)

From meter/disc.:

1) 125amp sub panel into my house
2) HVAC system power, 2.5ton
3) Range
4) Water heater

5) 125amp subpanel at bldg #1


My house is 1600 sqft/2 bedrooms, 1-1/2 baths; all systems wll be electric

I did a total load calc for house @ 145amp
Bldg #1 : (6) 4'/4bulb overhead lites + exterior lite at entry door IMG_0998.jpgBLDG #1
(2) 110 circuits 20 amp x2
(2) 220 circuits ??? ( what should I figure here?)
(1) 50-60amp for welder

tablesaw, bandsaw, wood lathe, drill press, lunchbox planer
dust collector( maybe ?), HVAC ,not really- a large fan could handle the Summer time and Winters aren't too rough or long in Piedmont NC ( Julie, after college I worked 4 years at the CBOT in the early '80s, I recall -65 degree windchill)


Bldg #2 : (4) 4'/3 bulb overhead lites + exterior lite at door- 15 amp
(2) 110 circuits- 15amp x2
minisplit 15 amp
bldg #2 IMG_2699.jpg

this will be my main woodworking shop- handtools mostly; insulated/sheetrocked

Once I get a good direction to go with the electric, I'll submit to building dept, then disconnect power from house ,
PoCo powering-up my t-pole.
I'm trying to get to the point, where I can rough -in bldg #1,#2, get inspections and cover up; that way I can get most my tools out of storage; what I would like to do is once the meter/disconnect is installed, to hot up the two buildings while I do a major re-model on house ( probably 12-18 months before I could CO the house)


Thanks everyone for all the help;
I still might get an EE to draw up plans if I can't get comfortable with this

[John K Jordan]

Do I need to look at anything else?

Steve, I wrote a response last night but it disappeared - most likely I got distracted and forgot to click the "post" button. I plead advanced age and feeble mindedness.

On what else to consider I wrote something along the lines of: Go visit the experts. Although I did my own calculations for planning purposes, before I finalized anything I talked to the utility engineering office and an inspector to see if I was missing or overlooking something. The code is so complicated and some say convoluted that it is easy for a commoner to get confused. In my case they said my choice would absolutely do what I wanted.

I would be cautious about opinions from various "professionals". I had a variety of conflicting opinions about wire size from licensed electricians and contractors I know, some good friends. I think that instead of calculations, some opinions were based on past jobs they had done which used smaller wire, but perhaps some of these jobs were driven by the primary goal of keeping the cost low and still "get by". The worst advice came from utility company workers, linemen and such who did electrical work on the side for spare change. Run away. Installing a line on such advice without verifying would be almost as bad as basing your decision on answers you read from strangers on some internet forum! (Ha!)

For one of my other buildings I did go with a much cheaper cable which size would likely result in poorer performance if fully loaded. (Can't remember the wire size.) That run was 70 amps over 900 ft underground to a new barn site which MIGHT see occasional welder use but mostly lights and fans, no machinery or HVAC. BTW, I learned it takes the right equipment to even handle a huge spool with 900+ feet of big cable on a hill!! It would be easy to get hurt bad. I had to weld up something for the front of my tractor.

JKJ

[Julie Moriarty]

I have a 150 amp service into my house.
I want to run a 100 amp sub panel in my wood shop.
My run will be aproximately 75 ft though 1 1/2 Electrical PVC (Grey)
It will be buried 2 ft down. (No frost line in Florida )

When determining depth of burial, frost is not a consideration, only the method of distribution. Where I am, if you run galvanized rigid conduit (GRC) you only have to bury it 6" deep for 120/240 circuits. PVC is 18" and direct burial cable is 36". Two municipalities just north of me require concrete-encased GRC for all buried electrical distribution. One even requires it when running the feed under a concrete slab. A bit overkill, if you ask me.

Your 75 foot run will not need voltage drop adjustments. Make sure you run a grounding conductor in the conduit. Don't ground at your wood shop using a ground rod. Depending on what cables you use, 1-1/2" should be fine. Keep the total bends at no more than 360^₀. If you do have that many degrees of bend, you might consider going with 2" pipe. Too many times I've heard profanity and expletives, while pulling the wire, directed at the "idiot" who chose the conduit size. Really tough pulls through PVC have caused the rope to burn through the inside of the 90⁰ elbow. One pull through GRC stopped cold and the foreman enlisted the help of a small dozer to finish the pull. The dozer operator started applying tension to the rope when suddenly the ground started rising and then, like something you see in a disaster movie, about 100' of conduit ripped right out of the ground. This foreman was notorious for going cheap on the conduit size so we had a bit of a laugh on him - to ourselves, of course.

[Julie Moriarty]

Duke Energy will run Triplex underground either direct burial or in conduit depending on amount of rocks install crew finds, from pole to new 200 amp meter/disconnect combo on side of my house.( I have 60amp service now)

From meter/disc.:

1) 125amp sub panel into my house - Do you mean you have a main panel and sub panel in your house? Or is this your main panel? If this is your main panel, I'd up it to 200A. You have a 200A service drop and you're running (2) sub panels downstream. I'd definitely install a 200A 42 space panel in the house.
2) HVAC system power, 2.5ton
3) Range
4) Water heater

5) 125amp subpanel at bldg #1

My house is 1600 sqft/2 bedrooms, 1-1/2 baths; all systems wll be electric

I did a total load calc for house @ 145amp - I'd install a 200A panel for sure

Bldg #1 : (6) 4'/4bulb overhead lites + exterior lite at entry door BLDG #1
(2) 110 circuits 20 amp x2
(2) 220 circuits ??? ( what should I figure here?) You would need to get the loads from the machines you intend to connect to those circuits.
(1) 50-60amp for welder

tablesaw, bandsaw, wood lathe, drill press, lunchbox planer dust collector( maybe ?),
Unless some are big machines, no additional consideration other than breaker space needs to be figured

HVAC ,not really- a large fan could handle the Summer time and Winters aren't too rough or long in Piedmont NC ( Julie, after college I worked 4 years at the CBOT in the early '80s, I recall -65 degree windchill) I spent the first 13 years in the trade working outside but never experienced anything like that

Bldg #2 : (4) 4'/3 bulb overhead lites + exterior lite at door- 15 amp
(2) 110 circuits- 15amp x2
minisplit 15 amp
bldg #2, this will be my main woodworking shop- handtools mostly; insulated/sheetrocked
I'm not a big fan of panels smaller than 100A. I've seen so many installations that ended up disasters because someone initially installed the smallest panel they could get away with. If you're going to use mostly hand tools and you can't see any time you might want to expand, you might consider a panel with maybe 12 breaker spaces.

Once I get a good direction to go with the electric, I'll submit to building dept, then disconnect power from house, PoCo powering-up my t-pole.

I'm trying to get to the point, where I can rough -in bldg #1,#2, get inspections and cover up; that way I can get most my tools out of storage; what I would like to do is once the meter/disconnect is installed, to hot up the two buildings while I do a major re-model on house ( probably 12-18 months before I could CO the house)

You have a 200A feed coming to your house. I'd run a 150A feed to #1 and a 100A to #2. If you need to cut costs by downsizing the feed, do it first with the feed to #2 and make sure you protect the cable with the right sized breaker in the panel at #1. If you need to cut further, same idea as the one above with a breaker in your main panel at the house.

I still might get an EE to draw up plans if I can't get comfortable with this
Take what you know now and draw up your initial plans the way you think it should be. Cut costs if you need. Then submit the drawings to the building department and let them critique it. They will tell you exactly what they want. Then redraw them according to the changes they made. Work with them. Ask questions. And most importantly, let them know you intend to completely comply with their codes. You'll be fine.

[Steve Kinnaird]

Yes, I have checked the code for depth of burial.
I just feel better going down 2 ft to keep it safer.

How do you feel about running a CAT5 cable through the same conduit for internet service?

[Garth Almgren]

How do you feel about running a CAT5 cable through the same conduit for internet service?

I don't know the code, but as a techie that sounds like a bad idea to me due to the potential electromagnetic interference, not to mention mixing (relatively) high voltage with low voltage. Your typical CAT5 is unshielded (UTP). You might get away with it if it were shielded (STP) but again it may go against code to run it in the same conduit as power.

[Julie Moriarty]

Yes, I have checked the code for depth of burial.
I just feel better going down 2 ft to keep it safer.

How do you feel about running a CAT5 cable through the same conduit for internet service?

No. No. No. Run a separate conduit. And it should be at least 12" away from the electrical conduit. You might want to check into well shielded CAT5e or CAT6 and see what the distance required is but under no circumstances should electrical and data be in the same conduit.

If you want an extra measure of safety, lay warning tape in the trench, about 12" above the conduit. Cheap insurance.

[Chris Padilla]

Run wireless...no need to pull cable these days for internet.

[Steve Kinnaird]

Thanks everyone.
I sold computers for about 15 yrs and knew to never they the Cat5 over fluorescent lights, but was unsure of in the conduit.
Been out of the industry for about 12 yrs now.

Wireless is a viable option. Might need to relocate my WiFi modem in the house.

[Mike Heidrick]

I just ran 200amp (I used 4/0, 4/0, 2/0, 4 alum MHF)to the new shed in 3" conduit at 48" (at least - deep as the skid steer trencher would go) and ran shielded direct burial cat6 at 24" in the same trench (bought on amazon for a decent price btw). Zero issues with connectivity at 200' buried and a 300' cable. So far this is just with metal halide lights, a large fridge, garage door openers, and the electronics running. No big tools running in there yet. I put two 200amp disconnects after the new 400amp meterbase on the house - one for house and one for shop. I got my poco requirements from their online pdf and selected boxes (model numbers) listed in their manual. Shop south wall has a 200amp 42 space box on it. North wall will have a 100amp box on it fed from south wall panel. Shop is 16' tall and I did not relish installing a ton of wires up and over. I used 2,2,2,4 to that second shed panel but really that is a 90amp rated setup.

Id get all your specs ok'd by the party that is doing your electrical inspection.