Festool

[Dave Avery]

All,

I've noticed some glowing reviews of the Festool line of saws and guides.... all from people who didn't actually spend their own money for the equipment. I have nothing against the marketing strategy of providing free equipment to those people who have web followings, but I'm a little bit leary about whether I'm getting an honest impression of the product.

Anybody actually buy the product and like it a lot? Dave.

[Mark Hulette]

Dave -

Here's a link to a professional that did pay for the Festool tools he has and gives a frank opinion about their performance. You can bet Mr. Hebert will tell it like he sees it.

C John Hebert's Site

[Dave Arbuckle]

I actually in fact paid full price for my Festool circular saw. It has it's good points, and not-quite-as-good points.

I have to include the disclaimer that I'm a picky SOB when I'm buying top dollar product. The things I list as defects on the Festool package, I would forgive on lesser priced goods.

First, the saw is neat. Bottom line, it's a good machine that works very well, and I'm glad I got it.

The gripe list:
1) The manual is pathetic. I've seen translation jobs from China that are no worse than this one. Information is poorly presented, occasionally misleading, a couple times just plain wrong. The President of Festool USA assures me that a complete redo of their manuals is in progress, and that it will take a while.

2) Be forewarned that Festool does not support other company's products used in conjunction with theirs. In my case, I have a Fein vacuum that I wanted to use with the Festool saw. Both companies use a similarly sized hose, should be no big deal. Well, it's a big deal, Festool refuses to provide an adapter to fit the Fein vacuum hose to the Festool saw. The answer (other than to buy yet another $400+ vac) is to use a hose from the Festool vac. This is an annoyance that I would prefer not to have hanging around the shop.

3) The claim is made in Festool advertising that this saw is much quieter than competing models. This is nonsense, unless you consider the very loud forty buck homeowner models as competing with the four hundred dollar Festool. It is in fact not noticeably different in noise than my Porter-Cable 347 (when the Festool is at full speed).

4) Much is made of the Systainer container system. I don't like them that much, Systainers are large, taking up a lot more space than just the saw. I'm not an itinerant carpenter, I don't need the ability to click all my tools together into one (no doubt unbelievably heavy) package. I would prefer to be given the option of saving (quite?) a few bucks and not buying the Systainer, but that is not an option.

I addressed these concerns with Bob Marino, my dealer, and Christian Oltzscher, the President of Festool USA. Bob went way out of his way to make me as happy as possible.

Again, the bottom line is that the saw is of seemingly great quality, and works well. For the price, I expect an entire "package" that is well done, and Festool falls short here.

Dave

[Dave Avery]

Thanks Dave..... appreciate you taking the time to reply in such detail. Dave.

[Geoff Siemering]

Dave,
I bought Festool's Rotex sander and am extremely happy with it. Being able to convert between a rotary sander, polisher, and random orbit sander is wonderful. The machine is quiet and the dust collection superb.

I would second Dave Arbuckle's comment about Festool not supporting other manufacturer's products (i.e. other shop vacs). I also have a Fein vacuum. I managed to put together an adaptor, but have a better designed adpator from either Fein or Festool would be greatly appreciated as I too am not interested in spending another $400 for a redundant vacuum.

I would not hesitate to buy another of their tools.

Geoff

[John Parker]

I purchased the festool rotex sander and vacuum package. I am very happy with the sander and vacuum. I do agree with Dave on the poor manuals. I also have the saw and guide and like it. The saw does take some getting use to, a plunging circular saw is something quite different. I will in the future purchase the router for the primary purpose of dadoing sheet goods. These tools are very expensive and very unique. Only time will tell if they hold up. At this time I would recommend them highly.

[Nathan Roelofs]

Dave,

Over the past four months I have purchased a few Festool products. I first purchased the Rotex sander and the router, along with a vac hose to hook them up to my Fein. Unlike some of the others, I actually like having the second vac hose. I use the Festool hose for the tools and general use and leave the Fein hose hooked up to my FMT jig (even though it seems to make no difference with that jig). I love both the sander and the router. The sander saved me alot of time finishing up a large casework project the day that I got it. The rotary mode took care of some uneven spots and the RO mode made things nice and smooth. The biggest plus is the dust collection. It is truly superior. The router is very nice. The 1/4" limitation is a shame, but it is a great tool nonetheless. It got even better after I purchased a guide rail for it. One handed routing seemed like a crazy idea before I tried this one.

About two months later, I purchased the VS600 jointing system (dovetail, etc. jig), the hole drilling set, and the guide rail. I expected to be overwhelmed again. I wasn't. The VS600 was too fussy for my use. The adjustments were counterintuitive and the technique was a little demanding. I think I'll buy an Akeda jig. The hole drilling set was way overpriced for what you get. Interestingly enough, it came with the old "Festo" brand on the systainer and the systainer looked like it had been sitting on a shelf for years (they must not sell many). As mentioned before, I kept the guide rail. It seemed expensive until I realized what it can do. While I never fell in love with my clamp 'n edge thing, the Festool rail is awesome. In any case, I ended up returning the VS600 and hole drilling set as part of their 30 day return policy. While I am still waiting for the credit to be posted (it has been over a month), this is a nice policy to fall back on.

I have since bought a used (mint condition) Blum minidrill for $450 to replace the hole drilling set ($300ish). Of course it drills for hinge cups, but does a good job at line boring as well. Seems like a better deal to me (I do use it alot, wouldn't make sense for less frequent use).

As the others mentioned, Bob Marino is superb in his attention to the customer and overall helpfulness.

In closing, I think the biggest advantage that Festool has is the uniqueness of their product. If you are looking for a general use router for doing roundovers, etc. there are probably better values to be had (like my pawn shop Makita 3606). But the plunge saw, the Rotex, the guide rails, etc. are unique products that represent good value for those that need such functions. I am looking at the linear sander as a possible next purchase.

[Christian Aufreiter]

Hi all,

I have the Festool ES 150/3, the CT 22 vac and my dad has the CDD cordless drill with the right angle and the eccentric attachment.

I really love my Festools.

They aren't cheap but they are worth the money in my opinion and - this is what I don't like - they are cheaper in the USA than in Austria and Germany and Festool USA has some very nice special offers you don't get here.
I'm not familiar with their marketing strategy but I think the biggest problem for possible Festool customers is that it's hard to take the step of spending - say $ 375 on a circular saw - unless you know how the saw will perform.
In Europe Festool is much more popular and I think the majority of professionals uses or at least knows them.
As Festool hasn't yet reached this reputation in the USA I think they try to make the first step I explained above a little easier and provide their tools in order to get a review.

The best "example" I know is Bob Marino.
Initially he was a hobby woodworker with two or three Festool's but finally he got so hooked on their tools that he became a Festool ISA, (one of) the best and most helpful I know.

I don't say that Festool makes the absolutely best tools but they are certainly among the best. And, from what I've seen the tools which are in my opinion comparable with Festools are even less known in the USA than Festool.
These are the companies which are considered to make really good stuff, too (of course, not all specialize on woodworking tools):
Mafell, Scheer, Hilti, Fein, Wegoma, Duss

Systainers - I really like them because they are much better than normal cases, more durable, more easily to store (same size) and they offer enough space for the tool and the long Festool cord.
What is much more annoying in my opinion is that Elu (now Dewalt) offered systainers but Dewalt doesn't offer them any longer. Here in Europe more and more companies offer systainers - Festool, Protool, Makita, Metabo, Scheer (?), Mafell.

"Festool does not support other company's products used in conjunction with theirs"
I can't fully agree on this.
Festool is one of the few companies which offer a system, not only single tools. This means that you don't need adapters for the the different tools, for example. Some companies aren't able to manage this within their own tool line.
It would be nice if Festool would support other companies more but it's up the other companies too, to broaden their minds.

I'm not sure but the Festool hose might fit the Fein vac.

Regards,

Christian

[Bob Marino]

Thanks for the kind words from my customers about the quality of service rendered. Just one point that Christian Aufreiter mentioned made need clarification. Before I became a Festool sales rep, I had purchased three of their tools; the jigsaw, 150/3 ros and the CT vac. Emphasis on purchased. Some months later, after becoming duly impressed with the lineup, I signed on.

Regards,

Bob

[John Wadsworth]

I bought the ATF 55 E circular saw plus guides and CT 22 E vac as a substitute for a panel saw. I don't have a sliding table on my PM 66 and am uncomfortable pushing around large pieces, particularly sheet goods, on the table saw.

Used on top of a shop-built sacrificial frame on folding picnic table legs, this setup allows me to carve up big plywood sheets into working-size pieces. The guides allow dead-on cuts; no trimming on the PM is necessary. The depth control on the 55 is easily set to a hair below the guide bottom, so not much chewing up of the supporting frame takes place. If I feel like it, I'll pop a piece of foam insulation board on the frame to eliminate even that small "sacrifice."

When not in use, the saw sits in its systainer atop the vac, rolled out of the way; the frame folds up and leans against the plywood rack, also out of the way. No wall space need be devoted to a panel saw.

Summary: Expensive? Yes. Very high quality? Yes. Worth it? To me, yes.

My .02, YMMV, as always.

[Dave Arbuckle]

Christian wrote (quoting me): "Festool does not support other company's products used in conjunction with theirs"
I can't fully agree on this.


Christian, I could quote the President of Festool USA directly, but it would take two paragraphs and I don't want to publish that much of a private e-mail without permission. The gist of his statement is contained in this short quote:

If one part of the system you are using doesn't fit to the system, you don't get the full benefit

The crux of the conversation was that Festool does not and will not support adapters to other company's products, for example the Fein vacuum. I personally think that is a mistake, but he's the President of the US branch of a tool company, and I'm not.

Festool hoses do fit into Fein vacuums, but they don't lock in place like the Fein does.

Dave

[Nathan Roelofs]

In all fairness to Festool, it seems that offering a hose that fits into another manufacturer's vac is a pretty good definition of cross brand support. I wonder what Fein would say if I asked to buy a hose that has a internally ridged rubber end that fit on Festool's oval port thingy. They both sell tools, they both sell vacs. Seems like Festool has gone one step further by offering at least one clean solution to the problem.

[Dave Arbuckle]

Nathan, I think it is more coincidence that they fit. Festool does not offer a special hose that fits a Fein, the regular Festool hose just happens to fit.

Dave

[Christian Aufreiter]

Hi Dave,

of course, it would be nice if all companies supported each other, not only in the case of hoses. Guide rails, systainers - battery packs I don't know exactly but I recently read that there are about 5 companies which produce the battery packs for all different tool manufactures.
But can you use a Panasonic pack with the Bosch and a Makita with the Festool and a Dewalt with a Milwaukee ....?

I think the Festool hose system (you don't need any adapters within the Festool line) is really great.
So in my opinion it would be better if other comnpanies adapted their hoses to the Festool line.

I talked to a guy who told my that he prefers using the Festool hose with his Bosch planer because it fits better than the Bosch adapter and hose.

Regards,

Christian

[markus shaffer]

i have the circular saw and the router made by festool. i have been very happy with both. the dust collection thing is a bit annoying, but for me a simple rubber adapter from home depot was the cure. cutting down sheet goods with the circular saw is much better than wrestling them on the tablesaw. as stated before, the lack of a 1/2" collet on the router is regrettable, but i do quite a bit of pattern routing with 1/4" bits with guide bearings. having the base that can be used with the guide rail is very useful.

as with everything in life, i can't imagine tool manufacturers will get it all right all the time so that every customer will be pleased. however, i think you do get what you pay for. i have said this in a previous post somewhere, the Germans seem to spend a lot more time and effort in designing everything they make. the initial cost may seem prohibitive for some people. however, we've all bought tools that we thought would "suffice" and then later spent more money to replace it. personally, i will only replace tools with better ones from now on. i've bought my last pc 333 and will soon replace it with a festool rotex sander. i think festool products are worth the cost.

-markus