Dovetail, hand cut or use a DT jig?

[ken masoumi]

In your opinion is buying/using a dovetail jig the next step for anyone who has tried the hand cut method first?

After years of avoiding dovetail joinery because of my first few failed attempts, I finally have decided to once and for all face my inadequacy and try to figure out why I failed before, so, I bought myself a Lee Valley dovetail guide kit last week, I have cut 5-6 pieces already and the last one was acceptable by my own standard .

I most definitely need a lot more practice (with and without the DT guide) but it feels like it's taking forever to just cut two pieces that fit perfectly, so I started to wonder:
Does it ever become like second nature to make perfect DT joinery?
why some woodworkers prefer a dovetail jig instead of cutting by hand, is it impatience? or maybe the need to produce more than a few and quickly? too many project?
Do you think using a DT jig adds to your woodworking skills?

[Prashun Patel]

A dovetail jig produces quick, consistent results. However, the choice of dovetail bits and sometimes spacing is limited. For this reason, machine cut dovetails are usually obvious (to other woodworkers). This may or may not matter to you. There is no right or wrong answer. Machine cut dovetails are every bit as strong as properly handcut ones.

All of the skills required for dovetailing (cutting straight, efficient paring and chopping, transfering marks, knowing where to cut, knowing where to shave when the fit's too tight) all come easier as time goes on. But you have to practice.

Dovetailing is like playing an instrument. You have to put in the time to get good at it.

[Jim Dwight]

half blind dovetails with a decent jig, properly adjusted, and router (also properly adjusted) do not take much time. The time in in the setup. I keep setup jigs in a drawer below the jig to help. I dovetail the backs even though there is little stress and you hardly ever see the joint. Once everything is set up, it is less than 5 minutes more to do the back.

I will agree completely with the hand cutting advocates that say my machined dovetails are obvious to them. Most people hardly notice the joints, however, and the ones that do rarely look down on a machine cut dovetail. I also use bb plywood for drawers, so I am already not doing everything the way some would say is necessary. Works fine for me.

[Allan Speers]

I do them both ways, but as I improve with hand-cutting, setting up a jig seems tedious and just not worth it.

That said, I personally PREFER the look of crisp, even, machine-made dovetails.

[David Ragan]

If I was going to make a really nice piece of furniture using DTs, I would practice, and practice, and then cut them by hand to do it.

For me, as hard as I try, there are always mistakes, etc.

Years ago after a huge mistake-I recoiled, stepped back, took a deep breath and imagined me as someone 75 years from now, (when nearly everything will likely be 3-D printed, etc)....I pretended to be that person looking at my blunder, and said "Hey, gee, look at that (feeling pleased that I had detected an unappreciated flaw)! Somebody made this by hand!.....it is branded right here....who the heck is David Ragan????"

So I dont' fret mistakes in handmade stuff anymore.

But, when I made the white oak casket for our Beloved Boots (family cat) several years ago, I used my Leigh DT jig, brusso solid brass hinges, padded felt lining, etc. I wanted to be sure it was air/watertight.

[ken masoumi]

I don't mind the look of machine made joints but not all jigs are created equal, I would love to know what jig you guys use,I have looked at PC 4212 ,have heard a lot of praises on Katie jig, and of course who wouldn't want a Leigh DT jig but I want to give handcut dovetail a good try before going high tech.

[Mike Henderson]

Dovetail jigs are great when you have a lot of dovetails to do and the width is all the same. You can do one set up and then run the pieces through production line fashion.

If you're doing a chest of drawers, however, each drawer will be a different width. If you were doing them with a jig, each drawer would require a set up (this assumes you want to have a half pin at the top and bottom). Once you get decent with hand cut dovetails, you can usually cut them by hand faster than you can go through the jig set up.

And if it's an heirloom piece of furniture, you, and the people who eventually own the furniture, will have the pride of having a piece which was "hand crafted".

Mike

[Kent A Bathurst]

had a Dt jig. used it a few times. took me longer to get the doggone router setups dialed in than hand cutting [well, almost], so I sold it and just decided to learn to do it OK - not great, but OK. I didn't think it turned out to be all that hard, as compared with what I had thought it would be like.......

Also - I don't like the look of the standardized DT from the jig. WOuld rather make up my own angles and spacing, to be honest. YYMV

[Andrew Hughes]

If I didn't dislike routers so much I would get Dt jig.I have a Festool router but never completely trust it.
I do sometimes use my small bandsaw the table tilts left and right so no silly ramp is needed.
I keep up my Dt skills with small boxes.It really is just a matter of pushing or pulling the saw back and forth straight.As others have mentioned woodworkers are really the only ones that notice.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I'll be honest - I do a lot of details in joinery and design that only I will likely ever notice.

I walk away satisfied. The heck with everyone else, right?

[David Linnabary]

In your opinion is buying/using a dovetail jig the next step for anyone who has tried the hand cut method first?

After years of avoiding dovetail joinery because of my first few failed attempts, I finally have decided to once and for all face my inadequacy and try to figure out why I failed before, so, I bought myself a Lee Valley dovetail guide kit last week, I have cut 5-6 pieces already and the last one was acceptable by my own standard .

I most definitely need a lot more practice (with and without the DT guide) but it feels like it's taking forever to just cut two pieces that fit perfectly, so I started to wonder:
Does it ever become like second nature to make perfect DT joinery?
why some woodworkers prefer a dovetail jig instead of cutting by hand, is it impatience? or maybe the need to produce more than a few and quickly? too many project?
Do you think using a DT jig adds to your woodworking skills?

Kent,

Sounds to me like you have one chink in your armor that needs to be worked out regardless if you buy a dovetail jig. Why not just identify it and master it now? It's probably a basic skill that will serve you later. Mine was always sawing to the line consistently, luckily that's the easiest to practice. My problem was not that I didn't know how to cut to the line but rather consistency. That and I thought I knew how to use a hand saw. What I really needed was to slow down and stay slow in order to establish a muscle memory that I simply couldn't do it wrong. I had to break a few bad habits in the process.

If you lay out the end grain of a board with lines and just practice cutting, it's amazing the difference you will see when comparing one cut to the next. That's when it will begin to soak in and you'll slow down. Then the light bulb will go off, the object is not cutting wood but rather to train muscles. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

The other skills can be developed in a similar way.

David

[Dave Richards]

I generally dislike the appearance of dovetails cut with tungsten carbide router bits. To my eye they look rather obese. And I really dislike the zipper tooth pattern created by the comb type jigs. If I'm going to cut dovetails with a router, I use HSS cutters which are slimmer than carbide ones.

One option that you might consider if you are thinking about router cut dovetails is the Router Boss. It's not specifically a dovetail jig but with it, you can cut dovetails using absolutely any dovetail bit you want with any spacing. You could work in much the same way you would when hand cutting. You could space the sockets on the fly and cut the pins to match. Heck, you could even cut the sockets by hand and then cut the pins on the Router Boss. After you've cut the first dovetail joint, you'll find it is very intuitive and you won't need to get the instructions out every time you use it.

You can do a lot more with the Router Boss than cut dovetails so it's much more flexible than the dovetail jigs out there. And since it is mounted on the wall, it doesn't occupy any valuable bench space.

[roger wiegand]

I do both, by hand when it's faster just to do it than set up a jig (or when I feel like it), using a Leigh jig when there's lots to do or when the wood is valuable enough that I don't want to risk messing it up. I don't mind the look of the jig-made dovetails, I do use the 8 degree bits and play with the spacing to have it look better (e.g. correct half pins at the ends, at least) than the uniformly-spaced wide splayed pins some jigs produce. I am also bothered by pins so skinny they have little structural strength-- they seems precious and pretentious-- as if the maker is demanding that you notice that they are hand cut, at the expense of accomplishing the purpose of the joint.

[Robert Engel]

I agree with a couple of the posters re: the look of machine cut as well as the time to set up, particularly when you have only one of two of diff sized drawers (which you almost always do) the set up time isn't really worth it.

Hand cut DT's are not difficult to master it just takes a lot of practice. You get to the point where you can literally built a 4" drawer box in less than 15 minutes. I learned by just doing them on drawers that are utility drawers, like for the shop.

There are a couple little tricks that can speed up the process.

If you cut the tails first you can do several drawers stacked together all at once (more accurate 90 degree cuts, too).
If you plane a little rabbet on the inside of the tails, then marking out the pins is lot more accurate.

Last, but not least is you've GOT to have high quality tools: an excellent rip saw + superior chisels with low side bevels.

If you want to cut them by machine, I would look into the table saw method. Mike Pekovich demonstrates this in one of this videos.

Last but not least, I think we fret WAY too much over DT's. Take a look at the DT's on some antique furniture you'll see what I mean.

[Kent A Bathurst]

yeah - and, as far as drawers go - - how often are the dt's even seen, unless you are showing them off to someone?

there's functional, and then there's artistic.............