Shapton Pro Stones Questions

[Jebediah Eckert]

I bunch of years ago I purchased 1500 / 5000 / 8000 Shapton Pro stones. I also bought the compact lapping plate / stone holder. This is NOT the $300 one the have today, I think it was like $80 back then. I also have the Shapton lapping powders in coarse, mediums, and fine. Well, I bought all this before the days of YouTube, or at least before I used it.

Lately I have been trying to improve my sharpening, handplane, and chisel skills with decent results. During this I have been brushing up on my sharpening. In some instances I get a great handplane surface and not so much on others. Like tonight I got a better surface off my LN 102 block plane (like glass) then my 4 1/2 that I both just sharpened and setup. Maddening. The wood was mahogany. While reviewing sharpening videos apparently it is "important" to keep your stones flat, make sense

Ok, how do it do this using what I have? Do I wet the stone and put the powder on the stone? I can't find any instructions anywhere. Somebody must have this system. The 5000 stone needs work but the other two are pretty close.

Any other tips on flattening the stones would also be appreciated.

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[Archie England]

Use your lapping plate to keep all three stones flat.
Soak or spritz with water, flatten backs (at least last 1/4") and bevel. Once you've pulled a significant burr (and worked it off), then move up to the next stone.

Use your coarse grit on a flat plate (not lapping plate) to speed up the sharpening process, or acquire a lower grit stone to do that (YMMV).

Strop the final product on leather, test on end grain, then on with the woodworking.

[Jebediah Eckert]

Thanks Archie, good tips. But I was more wondering how to flatten the stones themselves using the lapping plate and the powder?

[Archie England]

I should let a Shapton pro user answer that.

For me, the loose grit on the lapping plate would be too much for the 5/8k stones, and maybe even for the 1500. Personally, invest in an i-Wood 300 diamond plate (Tools from Japan). Atomas are better but pricey, too.

[bridger berdel]

Go to the home center borg store nearest you. Buy a masonry "cap stone". It'll be between $1 and $3. Get it soaking wet and flatten your stones on that. When it develops a dish get a new one.

[David Wong]

Use the medium powder (中目), for your 1500 grit stone. Use the fine powder (細目), for 5000 grit and above stones. I use the coarse powder for 800 grit and less. Before you begin, make sure the lapping plate is flat. Check before each use. You can flatten the lapping plate with sandpaper on a granite plate, or a diamond plate. To use the lapping plate, wet it and your stones. Sprinkle a coating of the abrasive powder over the plate. It does not have to be a heavy coat. Then with light pressure, rub the stone to distribute and bed the powder on the plate. You can then increase your pressure, but you really don't need much. You can add more powder as necessary. Drow pencil lines on the stones to tell when they are flat. It is a good idea to flatten fine stones first, then medium, then coarse. That way you do not have to clean the old grit off the plate. When finished, rinse off the lapping plate and wipe with a paper towel. If you don't wipe it, it will rust. If that happens, I just wipe it and use a coarse stone to clean the lapping plate off.

It is a pretty messy process, so I mostly use an atoma diamond plate. I will sometimes use the lapping plate on coarse stones. They seem to perform better afterwards, as compared to using a coarse diamond plate.

[Jebediah Eckert]

Thanks David, big help. What atoma plate do you use for a 5000 or an 8000 stone? Do you still need lapping powder and do you still wet the stone?

I know there are many ways to flatten the stones. A HD masonry cap is a new one on me but a good economical one for sure. I was just trying to use what I already had.

[David Wong]

I use an atoma 400 on everything 2000 grit and finer. I have a 140 atoma that I use on 1000 and coarser. Because of the mess, and the risk of contamination by loose silicon carbide grit, I now only use the shapton compact lapping plate for badly out of flat stones, and only in the garage sink where I can wash everything off.

[Derek Cohen]

Life in the shop is too short to muck about with inefficient methods of sharpening and flattening stones. I use a 275 grit diamond stone for all my waterstones, Shapton (1000/5000/12000 - the latter no longer used much) and Sigma (6000/13000).

Atoma have a good reputation. I have Eze-lap and a Shapton diamond plate (used for about 10 years now). It will last for many, many years if kept for the stones and not used to lap steel as well.

Further, I do not see a coarse diamond stone being limited to coarser grades of waterstones. I do not believe that a coarse flattening stone affecting the finer waterstone grits. The sharpening media lie with the grit in the stone and not in the texture of the surface. Therefore one coarse diamond stone (250-275 grit) will do it all.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jebediah Eckert]

Thank you, I am not a fan of messy but it will have to do for now. I do not have a sink in my shop. I'm going to give it a shot this morning flattening them as instructed.

If I were ever to switch to a diamond stone how is that done? Do you just spritz the a Shapton stone and then lap it on the diamond stone, or just do it dry?

[Derek Cohen]

Thank you, I am not a fan of messy but it will have to do for now. I do not have a sink in my shop. I'm going to give it a shot this morning flattening them as instructed.

If I were ever to switch to a diamond stone how is that done? Do you just spritz the a Shapton stone and then lap it on the diamond stone, or just do it dry?

Best done under running water. The alternative is a tub of water.

The good thing about these stones is that you do not need to flatten them as often as with others.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jebediah Eckert]

I just gave it a whirl and had zero success unfortunately. The stones are dead flat across the width but dip off ever so slightly lengthwise. About 1/3 flat in center and the outside 1/3 dip off slightly. I'm using a starrett ruler off the combo square and it is in good condition. I've been at it for an hour and am not making any headway. I drew a cross pattern with a pencil and that is removed within 10 strokes or so but still not getting flat.

I then put the Shapton lapping plate on 80 and 120 grit sandpaper on a granite lapping block. I worked at that a while but it is hard to tell if it's flat using a straight edge because of the voids in the design. I marked the whole surface with a marker and it took it all off.

Back at the stones still same results. Maddening.

Maybe the lapping plate needs more flattening? Maybe it is slightly bowed and that would account for taking more off the ends. I don't know.

I wish i knew somebody local. I would be curious to see how "dead flat" their stones are, maybe I'm being too picky. My wife says my eyes are too good and my rulers too precise. Maybe I should have bought a cheaper straight edge and been none the wiser? I don't usually get crazy on accuracy when it comes to this stuff but from all the reading it seems important to get good sharpening results. Only after good sharpening do you have any prayer of getting good results from a smoothing plane.

I guess as long as they are flat side to side it should be fine for plane and chisels sharpening lengthwise? If not it will have to do for now til I figure this out, although I'm not sure what else I can do.

Maybe I can try flattening the stones on 120 grit sandpaper on the granite plate and see how that goes.

[David Wong]

When I use the lapping plate, I vary the directions I lap the stone on the plate, on the theory that it will equalize any pressure and wear bias I may be applying. I move the stone lengthwise back and forth, diagonally across the lapping plate, and in circular and figure-eight motions, and counterclockwise. I also flip the stone 180 degrees and go through the same motions. I count the number of strokes in a particular direction to try to equalize wear in the opposite direction. This sounds complicated and a lot of work, but it goes really fast. I mentally count 8-10 strokes in every direction. I do the same thing when I use a diamond plate.

Inking the lapping plate and rubbing on sandpaper is how I flatten it also.

I don't know how much downward pressure you are applying, but you might try lightening up. Especially when distributing the abrasive powder on the plate, just use the pressure from the weight of the stone. A little more pressure after the powder is distributed. Another thing to consider is whether you are using enough abrasive powder. I usually give 2 or 3 taps from the bottle. Make sure to wet the stones as well. I am not careful about the amount of water on the lapping plate. I just dump some water on it to get the entire surface wet, tilt the plate to get rid of the excess, then apply the powder.

[Jebediah Eckert]

Thanks David. That is basically what I did. I did go light on pressure and did a similar altering pattern. I guess it would make sense if the ends of the plate are bowed up slightly? Even with altering a pattern the ends would get more time on the ends of the plate?

I'm going to grab some more 120 and 220 wet dry sandpaper and try to flatten them on the granite plate like in the Lie Nielsen video. If that works then I guess the problem is the Shapton plate?

[Bruce Mack]

Just a thought. When I used sharpening jigs I found that slight surface variations stone to stone led to poor registration/repeatability as I moved grit to grit. Free hand sharpening, side to side or Sellers' method, makes it easier to achieve a fine edge. Just try this once and don't sweat the stone flatness. See if the results please you.