Circular Saw 10 1/4" blades - question.

[Allan Speers]

I just ordered a Makita 10-1/4" CS, to use with my EZ track system. Since I no longer have my Unisaw, I wanted to get that cut-depth back for times when the band saw is not convenient. Also, the extra weight will be a plus with a track system.

However, I still only have a 14a motor. The Makita's motor runs at a fairly low speed / higher torque than most, but it's still not a 3 HP induction motor. Therefore, I assume I'll probably have to use a thin-kerf blade for my toughest jobs.



- But do I HAVE to use a thin kerf blade with a circular saw, or will a standard 10" tablesaw blade fit? I'd love to use my existing (expensive) TS blades for several reasons.

If the answer is no, but I still want the most stability in my cuts, can I use a thin kerf blade + a small-diameter stabilizer?

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I know just enough to be afraid of using the wrong blade. Assuming that you have the correct dimensions and arbor size, what else is there to worry about?

Well, assume that you use a very aggressive blade (a rip blade maybe). This blade will have a tenancy to want to pull that saw along very quickly and may be more difficult to control or require too much power for the saw. Here is an excerpt from

http://justsawblades.com/ten/choosin...ght_blade.html

Different types of power saws work best with blades made for them, and can work horribly (if at all) with the wrong blade. Using the example of a rip blade again: put a rip blade on a radial arm saw and even if you rotate the carriage to rip, it’s going to want to lift the wood up off the table. Try to crosscut with anything vaguely resembling a rip blade (aggressive rake/hook angle) on that same saw and the whole carriage will try to “run” straight out at you. And the teeth will dig in and bind up your saw, tripping a breaker. Been there and done that one before I knew there was such a thing as a radial arm blade.

There are some types of blades, such as metal cutting blades, that can be used on and are recommended for all types of saws: table saw, miter saw and radial arm. Also some moderate-rake/hook combination blades. But a good rule of thumb is to just stick to what the manufacturer recommends. Buy a table saw blade for a table saw, a miter blade for a miter saw and a radial arm blade for a radial arm. When you think about it, you’re not going to be cutting sheets of plywood on a miter or radial arm and you’re probably not going to be mitering moldings on a table saw.

In the text above, they discuss problems with a rip blade on a radial arm saw pulling the wood up. In your case, this would be pulling the wood into the base of the saw, which should be fine as long as it is not just too aggressive for your track saw.

There are blades designed with track saws in mind, no idea if they are set for the size saw that you have. You might want to look at the tooth count, angles, and similar.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/tool-...ided-saws.aspx

http://www.aconcordcarpenter.com/fre...aw-blades.html

Carbide processors supports our forum here (and they have a discount for our members). If you cannot sort this out for your saw, have a chat with them. I expect that Tom will have an intelligent answer for you and sell you a blade that would work well for your application.

http://www.carbideprocessors.com/

[Charles Lent]

Will the saw that you are going to use allow a 10 1/4" blade to be installed? Most circular saws use 7 1/4" blades and anything larger won't fit inside the guard. I hope this is just a typo, or maybe I am mis-understanding your post. I don't think a larger saw can be used on an EZ Smart system, but I could be wrong. I've only seen the EZ Smart systems in use two times.

Charley

[Allan Speers]

Thanks, Andrew, you've given me something specific to look into. The Makita has a 5/8" arbor, so no problem there.

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Charles, no typo. I bought a 10-1/4 Makita, model 5104. You can use any saw on an EZ system. They do say something, somewhere about an 8 1/4" saw max, but that has to do with the base. I'm going to make my own base, or modify the EZ "Moduni" base to fit. It will take a little effort, but I don't see why it would be impossible.

The other two difficulties will be adding a good dust shield, and a removable splitter, but I've already done that properly with my 7" Hilti. Lots of work, but worth the effort.

Having such a saw on my EZ-One table should make a great system. Because the saw always stays on the track (using the hinged "bridge") the extra weight will actually be a benefit.

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I still don't know if a TS blade will physically fit. Too thick? Or if there is another reason not to do this.
If not, then I need to order the proper blades right away, before the saw arrives.

I'm going to call Carbide Processors for their advice, but I'd still welcome other thoughts from you guys.

[Tom Walz]

Carbide Processors is going to tell you to use the recommended blade.

In all honesty, partly for legal reasons. Mostly because saw blades are dangerous enough used properly.

This is a saw specifically designed for cutting applications such as beams and timber. This means you could hit almost anything. http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_bas...e_sawmill.html

Tungsten carbide is hard and modern carbide is pretty tough but it still chips and breaks. Last week I did a failure analysis on saw blades from a truss plant. The operator brought the blades down with no wood under them. The blades hit the chain, the carbide chipped and they took the operator to the ER to have a chunk of carbide taken out of his jaw.

Over the years I have done research, written and lectured on tool safety from the manufacturing process through their use. That means I hear from a lot of people who have lost fingers, eyes and almost anything else. There are many stories of accidents on this forum. I have been in sawmills and seen hundreds of holes in the roof and walls from saws coming apart.

For me, personally, it was a ladder that taught me that I was not bullet proof. If you go to the Las Vegas show this month look for an old fat man with a short left leg. I will buy you lunch and tell you how I got hurt.

Saws, cars, alcohol, etc. can all be used safely but you have to follow the rules.

Thin kerf saw blades are easier to break than thicker saw blades (duh!). There is nothing inherently wrong with them. They are best used on very clean lumber cut in high quality machines.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6uVC27QBdQ
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...s-of-Stiffness

Sorry or the rant.

Tom Walz

[Allan Speers]

Thanks, Charles.

Rants are good, eps when they concern safety!

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A woman at Carbide Processors says I can use any 10" blade I want. However, I still have questions. For instance:

For crosscuts, should I use a "miter" blade, with its negative rake, or a standard c-cut or combi blade? In my situation is NOT like using a miter saw. The stock is completely captive - even more so than with a regular tracksaw due to the weight of my system. I guess the "scrap" part of the stock could fly up, but then the same would hold true with a table saw, no?

[Andrew Pitonyak]

For crosscuts, should I use a "miter" blade, with its negative rake, or a standard c-cut or combi blade? In my situation is NOT like using a miter saw. The stock is completely captive - even more so than with a regular tracksaw due to the weight of my system. I guess the "scrap" part of the stock could fly up, but then the same would hold true with a table saw, no?

I would not specifically get a blade meant for a miter saw. I would be more inclined to get a blade meant to cross-cut on a table saw, or, as I expect is shipped with the saw, a combination blade.

I would first try the blade that is shipped with the saw. If you can use any blade of proper size, then, if you have an appropriate blade for your table saw, try that.

Does the track you will use have a replaceable strip that is sacrificed when you make a cut? I have a Dewal track saw, and, when I made my first cut, it removed part of that strip. Now, I know exactly where the blade will cut. If you have blades (especially of different thicknesses) it may change exactly where the cut is and then you can no longer use that strip to know where the cut will be; keep that in mind based on your system.

[Allan Speers]

Does the track you will use have a replaceable strip that is sacrificed when you make a cut? I have a Dewal track saw, and, when I made my first cut, it removed part of that strip. Now, I know exactly where the blade will cut. If you have blades (especially of different thicknesses) it may change exactly where the cut is and then you can no longer use that strip to know where the cut will be; keep that in mind based on your system.

This is a very good point.

Of course, all blades have different thicknesses. Regular kerfs can be anywhere from about 0.95" to 1.35" (or more) and thin kerf blades, while usually around 0.65", are often much thinner.

The ideal option is to have different edge strips (the anti chip material) for each blade thickness. Many Eurekazone users do just this. That's a quite a pain, of course. It sure would be nice to use just one thickness for everything. The other option is to not worry about a perfectly-placed anti chip edge, but that's one of the things a tracksaw actually does BETTER than a tablesaw, so it would be a shame to minimize it.

[Mike Goetzke]

Allan - I had the Makita 10-1/4" 5104 on my EZ at one time. I had a project that required a lot of 8/4 & 10/4 white oak. The saw did great with the TK blade. I did run my pieces through a jointer after cut. As far as anti-chip edges go I have found that they are good for cut alignment if they match the blade edge. I have actually have not used the anti-chip edges for some time and found if you use a good sharp blade and take is slow you don't need them. I use a jig that references the cut edge from the track rib (just block of wood and a wire).

Mike

[M Toupin]

A woman at Carbide Processors says I can use any 10" blade I want.

Carbide Processors is going to tell you to use the recommended blade.

I'd take the advice of the higher authority... You might want to check out Tom's bio

just say'n

Mike

[Allan Speers]

Allan - I had the Makita 10-1/4" 5104 on my EZ at one time. I had a project that required a lot of 8/4 & 10/4 white oak. The saw did great with the TK blade. I did run my pieces through a jointer after cut. As far as anti-chip edges go I have found that they are good for cut alignment if they match the blade edge. I have actually have not used the anti-chip edges for some time and found if you use a good sharp blade and take is slow you don't need them. I use a jig that references the cut edge from the track rib (just block of wood and a wire).

Mike

Thanks, Mike. That's good to know.

- But you felt the need to joint afterwards, so does that mean you DIDN'T get a "glue line" cut? If not, that could be due to the TK blade, which is exactly why I'm hoping to try / use a thicker blade, if the saw ends up having enough power.