Really need expert advice on router size and type???

[Lucy Langlois]

Roughing with a jigsaw and then finishing with the router is a good plan. I really like my Bosch jigsaw - they are known for jigsaws. A way to do much the same thing with just the router and the same bits would be to move to a slightly larger template guide, then cut the shape in a couple passes, then switch to the template guide you are using to trim the last 1/16 in one pass. No ridge this way and not over-stressing the router. I have two mid-sized PC 690s and they have never even needed brushes. I've used them to do panel raising with bits over 3 inches diameter (slowed down). I had to make multiple passes but they did fine. I think you have an issue learning a way to use the tool, not with the tool itself.

I would not increase the size of the bit to 1/2 inch. You will be removing a lot more material making the situation even worse. A 1/4 spiral bit is fine for this.

Cheapest way to do this is a new template guide. Cut in two passes with the larger (I suggest 1/16 larger) template guide and then clean it up in one pass with the smaller template guide. I would also use an older bit to cut the shape and then a newer one to clean up the cut. You may save a bit on bits this way too.

Jim

Oh, that sounds like a really great idea. thank you! So still take most off with the jigsaw, then larger template guide and then the one I have now correct? Can't wait to try this.

[Lucy Langlois]

I would use the template to draw the shape;
use a good jig saw to cut away all but 1/8" ..
then put the template back on and use a 1/2" bit on your router to clean it up ..


I use lots of 1/4" bits but I prefer 1/2" shanks for long term cutting where heat can build up.

I like your work ..

Thanks Rick!...and I'm definitely going to remove the excess now before routing, makes so much sense

[Lucy Langlois]

I would try a SINGLE flute 1/2 inch bit. It will cut MUCH faster and will not strain router you have now. That router should have a 1/2 collet with it ,if it doesn't ..they are cheap. Yes ,you will have to change the templates.

ok, yes, it came with 1/2 collet. so single flute bit with the template guide instead of the spiral upcut type bit?

[Mel Fulks]

Last try, I promise. Google the bit size and flute number question. Amana says one flute is faster ,might not leave as smooth a surface. Didn't read more than one mfg answer since I was looking for cite....not holding an election.

[Mike Cutler]

Yes, Mike, I didn't know or think about cutting off excess. Hmmm... on the ridge I'm getting. I don't know. I used my jigsaw and rotozip to make them out of Mdf and was careful to sand them and make them as clean as possible. Yes, I am using just the router to do that whole thing, face and all. That is the largest mermaid at 4ft tall, I make smaller ones and I'm still able to get good face definition .. this is my smallest size and about 34" wide.

Yes, I mentioned above that I feel pretty stupid telling y'all that I've used the 2 wrenches to tighten the collet by squeezing them together but it never occurred to me to use the same process to loosen. I was trying to basically pull them apart in opposite directions... don't laugh

I do not know about centering the template guide or using a center finding tool
So... what bit should I be using?
Attachment 317208

Lucy
No worries, no one is laughing about the wrenches. I have many, many, scars on my fingers and hands from getting "manly" with tools. If you're going to use a mallet to "persuade" the wrench, make sure it's a soft face mallet, not metallic. Remember that "metal on metal, hurts a fella".

A centering tool is a small tool for a router that sort of looks like a big golf tee. What it does is to center the template collar,and baseplate, to the router collet centerline, so that no matter which way the router is turned, while routing against a template, the bit is centered in the template bushing and will always maintain the same distance, relative to the centerline of the router template bushing.
Here is what it looks like; http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/144...ering-Pin.aspx
Here is a short You Tube video on it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiNxhpVtGeg

If you were to hand me one of those to do, I would trace the online onto the Plywood, and cut to within an 1/8" of the line with a jig saw. Put the template back in place and then use either a straight cutter, or a spiral bit, depending on how much tear out or fraying I was getting, due to the quality of the plywood.
The hair and arms are going to require a plunge, so I would make sure that the bit had bottom cutters to plunge through. I would probably use an 1/8" bit on a 1/4" shank for the fine detail.
I like the bits Mel referred too. Something to consider, given the alternating layers of the plywood substrate.

There are many ways to accomplish the same task. it's just a matter of finding the one you are comfortable with.

[Frank Martin]

First, listen the guys that posted before me about the how to acccomplish the task. Regarding specific routers, I have and think greatly of the DW621 but Pat had problems with recent manufacture. If you have the funds can't go wrong with a Festool OF1400. It also has an easy way to change collets. It is however more than twice the cost of others. If not that, today I would probably go with a Bosch after hearing complaints about newer DW621s. Good luck!

[Kent A Bathurst]

No worries, no one is laughing about the wrenches. I have many, many, scars on my fingers and hands from getting "manly" with tools.


If you were to hand me one of those to do, I would trace the online onto the Plywood, and cut to within an 1/8" of the line with a jig saw. Put the template back in place and then use either a straight cutter, or a spiral bit, depending on how much tear out or fraying I was getting, due to the quality of the plywood.
The hair and arms are going to require a plunge, so I would make sure that the bit had bottom cutters to plunge through. I would probably use an 1/8" bit on a 1/4" shank for the fine detail.

As per, Mike is dead on. His explanation is easier to follow than what I was trying to explain.

If you are trying to end up with a very clean, smooth edge, you can always finish up with a rasp, which is a whole 'nuther rabbit hole to jump into.

Good Luck - you will definitely get there - your "get after it" attitude comes through loud and clear.

Is there any chance we could see a photo or two of the finished piece[s]?

[John Lemke]

Are you replacing bits because you see the quality of the cut degrading? I haven't routed plywood all that much so I might be off base here, but it sure seems to me that you're going through bits too rapidly if you're replacing them every five shapes. The jigsaw first approach will be kinder to your bits in any event.

[Lucy Langlois]

Are you replacing bits because you see the quality of the cut degrading? I haven't routed plywood all that much so I might be off base here, but it sure seems to me that you're going through bits too rapidly if you're replacing them every five shapes. The jigsaw first approach will be kinder to your bits in any event.

I agree, I take them off and clean them and it helps for a bit but it just starts dragging and when I put a new bit in, it cuts like butter so I was assuming it needed a new bit. I'm not happy about the rate I go through bits, I had to increase prices on those pieces to account for that.

[Lucy Langlois]

As per, Mike is dead on. His explanation is easier to follow than what I was trying to explain.

If you are trying to end up with a very clean, smooth edge, you can always finish up with a rasp, which is a whole 'nuther rabbit hole to jump into.

Good Luck - you will definitely get there - your "get after it" attitude comes through loud and clear.

Is there any chance we could see a photo or two of the finished piece[s]?

I want to avoid rabbit holes lol! This is a link to my online shop... https://www.etsy.com/shop/LucyDesignsonline where I have all the sizes of the mermaids. They have stained glass or shells. I also cut out the angel wings and octopuses with the router. And then I have other hand painted pieces

I use the fairly decent plywood (for my purposes) that is nice and straight and knot free, about 30 bucks a sheet at my Lowes but depending on what I'm cutting out, I can get quite a few shapes out of one sheet

[Jim Dwight]

Oh, that sounds like a really great idea. thank you! So still take most off with the jigsaw, then larger template guide and then the one I have now correct? Can't wait to try this.

Lucy, I wasn't suggesting a 3 step process, just alternate ideas for a two step. I would either use the jigsaw (if you are comfortable with them) or do the basic cutout with an oversize template guide in the router. Either way, the final pass would happen like you are doing now, but there would be a lot less material to remove.

I noticed later you comment you are going through a lot of bits, either way would help that too.

I like a jigsaw but that method of doing the roughing cutout would require more concentration - to never remove material that needs to remain. The oversized template guide would involve the same mechanics you are used to, you would just need to do it more than once (maybe three times if you do the roughing cut in two passes plus one final cleanup). To further expand on that idea, you could put the motor on the plunge base with the oversized template guide for the roughing cut and then move the same motor and bit to the fixed base with your current template guide for the final cleanup cut.

I find the PC router collet wrenches to work a lot better if I position them so all I have to do is squeeze. Sometimes I have to flip one over to get them the right distance apart but squeezing works better for me than pulling on them. Particularly when loosening I have to mess with the wrenches a few seconds to get them in the right position but then it is just a firm handshake motion and the collet is loose. If you really want leverage, however, you could get a couple combination wrenches of the appropriate size. I didn't do that for the PC but I have an old Ryobi R-500 motor in my router table and I use a conventional open end wrench on it rather than the short one it came with.

[Lucy Langlois]

"The oversized template guide would involve the same mechanics you are used to, you would just need to do it more than once (maybe three times if you do the roughing cut in two passes plus one final cleanup). To further expand on that idea, you could put the motor on the plunge base with the oversized template guide for the roughing cut and then move the same motor and bit to the fixed base with your current template guide for the final cleanup cut. "

thanks for clarifying. I'm liking the idea quoted above. I do have a jigsaw (crappy B&D one, I need a new one) and I use them a lot so I wouldn't have a problem with that but I like this method you suggested and making several passes with the oversized guide for the roughing cut.

I ordered a Bosch JS365 jigsaw last year to replace the one I have and I hated it so much. I had to return it. The problem was I couldn't see where I was cutting, even with the clear plate attached. So I haven't ordered anything else to replace mine yet.

[Lucy Langlois]

First, listen the guys that posted before me about the how to acccomplish the task. Regarding specific routers, I have and think greatly of the DW621 but Pat had problems with recent manufacture. If you have the funds can't go wrong with a Festool OF1400. It also has an easy way to change collets. It is however more than twice the cost of others. If not that, today I would probably go with a Bosch after hearing complaints about newer DW621s. Good luck!

oh dear, the DW621 is the one I was thinking of ordering. Since I just need a decent tool for this one use, I might pass on the cost of the Festool... BUT then I think well, if it will get the job done, be easy to use and last, it might be worth it even for this one job I have for it... decisions.

[Lucy Langlois]

Whiteside has quick turnaround on bit sharpening. I only buy Whiteside bits unless extremely unusual circumstances. Maybe don't try this at home, but I use full sized wrenches. If you do use full sized wrenches, don't try to put a lot of force on them. It doesn't take much. I have stacks of the stamped wrenches that come with the routers that have never been used.

I did know that about Whiteside and really need to send mine in for sharpening! I have quite a few

[Lucy Langlois]

Lucy
No worries, no one is laughing about the wrenches. I have many, many, scars on my fingers and hands from getting "manly" with tools. If you're going to use a mallet to "persuade" the wrench, make sure it's a soft face mallet, not metallic. Remember that "metal on metal, hurts a fella".

A centering tool is a small tool for a router that sort of looks like a big golf tee. What it does is to center the template collar,and baseplate, to the router collet centerline, so that no matter which way the router is turned, while routing against a template, the bit is centered in the template bushing and will always maintain the same distance, relative to the centerline of the router template bushing.
Here is what it looks like; http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/144...ering-Pin.aspx
Here is a short You Tube video on it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiNxhpVtGeg

If you were to hand me one of those to do, I would trace the online onto the Plywood, and cut to within an 1/8" of the line with a jig saw. Put the template back in place and then use either a straight cutter, or a spiral bit, depending on how much tear out or fraying I was getting, due to the quality of the plywood.
The hair and arms are going to require a plunge, so I would make sure that the bit had bottom cutters to plunge through. I would probably use an 1/8" bit on a 1/4" shank for the fine detail.
I like the bits Mel referred too. Something to consider, given the alternating layers of the plywood substrate.

There are many ways to accomplish the same task. it's just a matter of finding the one you are comfortable with.

well that little thing is genius. I've bookmarked to order later because I have noticed my bit sometimes doesn't look like it's in the center of the guide. Does the straight cutter bit have bottom cutters for plunging or are those strictly for cutting the edges of stuff? I've only used the spiral upcut.