Problems with a sewage pump

[Wade Lippman]

I have a sewage pump in my basement for a powder room. It is plugged into a single "dedicated" outlet/circuit. I want to add an alarm, but nearest outlet on another circuit is 30 feet away.
Only solutions I see are to change the outlet to a duplex GFCI, or run an extension cord for the alarm.

The manufacturer says the pump cannot be used on a GFCI because there will be nuisance trips. He also warns against putting the alarm (which draws 2a only when it is sounding) on an extension cord because it can get unplugged. I have another inquire into him asking that if I can accept the risk of it getting unplugged (I am the only person to go in that room and I will not unplug it; and even if I do, it has a battery backup that chirps when it gets low) is there any reason not to use an extension cord.

So, two questions:
1) Any code reason I can't use an extension cord on the alarm?
2) If the pump can't be installed on a GFCI, and code no longer allows an exception for pumps from a GFCI, how can these pumps be used today. (Presumably my existing outlet is grandfathered from 2005.

[Lee Schierer]

I have three sump pumps (pre-2000) all on GFCI circuits and haven't had a trip in the more than 10 years since I installed the GFCI's. I had a partially flooded basement once and ran some portable pumps off the GFCI circuits in the basement with no trips.

Can you add a hard wired outlet from the location that is 30 feet away that would be in your room with the pump?

I think I would change the single outlet to a duplex and plug my alarm in directly. They make safety brackets for freezers and refrigerators to prevent the plugs from coming out. Use those to insure your pump and alarm stay plugged in.

I can't speak as to what the code says, but maybe Julie will chime in here.

[Wade Lippman]

Adding an outlet to a distant circuit is possible, but there is an awful lot of stuff in between that can't be moved. Wouldn't be easy.

Changing the single to a duplex would be a code violation.

The manufacturer says the pump can't be run on a GFCI; I haven't tried it. The consequences of having a sewage pump fail is rather more than having a sump pump fail.

[Justin Koenen]

Wade, I have an alarm which uses several AA batteries and it s signal is similar to a smoke alarm. It works! Bought at the local chain farm store. Replaced batteries once in eight years.

[Brian Elfert]

If you want to be code compliant you are not supposed to use an extension cord for a permanent install. The reality is there are probably a million plus houses with extension cords used as permanent connections.

I moved the sump pump in my previous house off of GFCI because it tripped once and I had water everywhere. Probably code requires a GFI, but I wasn't about to deal with flooding every few months. The septic pump in my current house is supposed to on GFCI too, but the previous owner did not have it on GFCI and when I added GFI breaker it trips immediately. I put it back on a regular breaker until I have time to troubleshoot it.

[Phil Thien]

According to this page:

http://ecmweb.com/code-basics/nec-re...errupters-gfci

What about crawl spaces and unfinished areas of the basement? Once again, all 15A and 20A, 125V receptacles installed within a dwelling unit crawl space [210.8(4)] or in each unfinished portion of a basement not intended as a habitable room but used for storage or as a work area [210.8(5)], must be GFCI-protected. However, the Code does note a few exceptions to these rules: GFCI protection is not required for receptacles that are not readily accessible or are located on a dedicated branch circuit and identified for a specific cord-and-plug-connected appliance, such as a sump pump.

So it seems like there may be an "out" for your sewage pump. So I might try to piggyback on that "out" by replacing the receptacle with a duplex receptacle, you can argue that the alarm is to protect from sewage backups and the sewage pump doesn't work with GFCI.

An alternative may be to add a GFCI AFTER the sewage pump receptacle, so the GFCI would be used downstream. Still maybe a PITA to wire but not as bad as pulling 30' of new cable.

Another alternative may be replace your circuit breaker with something less than 15a if that will be sufficient for everything on the circuit (I have no idea how much a sewage pump uses), and then use a duplex receptacle to replace the current receptacle.

[Wade Lippman]

According to this page:

http://ecmweb.com/code-basics/nec-re...errupters-gfci

What about crawl spaces and unfinished areas of the basement? Once again, all 15A and 20A, 125V receptacles installed within a dwelling unit crawl space [210.8(4)] or in each unfinished portion of a basement not intended as a habitable room but used for storage or as a work area [210.8(5)], must be GFCI-protected. However, the Code does note a few exceptions to these rules: GFCI protection is not required for receptacles that are not readily accessible or are located on a dedicated branch circuit and identified for a specific cord-and-plug-connected appliance, such as a sump pump.

I actually found that article also, but noticed the date was 2002. As of 2008 that exception went away.
My changing it to a duplex would void the grandfathering, though I think a dedicated circuit requires a single outlet anyhow.

[Phil Thien]

I actually found that article also, but noticed the date was 2002. As of 2008 that exception went away.
My changing it to a duplex would void the grandfathering, though I think a dedicated circuit requires a single outlet anyhow.

Ugh, sorry for the inaccurate stuff.

One last thought: Is there any option for hard-wiring the alarm you're adding?

[Jerry Bruette]

I wouldn't put the alarm on the same circuit as the pump. If that breaker trips you'll be without an alarm.

[Brian Elfert]

My septic alarm and septic pump were on the same circuit when I bought the house. The pump was connected with Romex that someone put a plug on and plugged into an outlet. I ran a dedicated circuit to a junction box and properly hardwired the septic pump.

This was just one of many electrical problems that required rewiring most of the house.

[Wade Lippman]

The plumber (I am not about to dig into a sewage pump!) says he will check with the building inspector, but is certain he will approve changing to a duplex as long there both are occupied.
I don't have much experience with building inspectors, does that seem adequate? If someone complains in 10 years when I sell the house, can I go back to the single outlet or would the grandfathering be lost?

[Phil Thien]

The plumber (I am not about to dig into a sewage pump!) says he will check with the building inspector, but is certain he will approve changing to a duplex as long there both are occupied.
I don't have much experience with building inspectors, does that seem adequate? If someone complains in 10 years when I sell the house, can I go back to the single outlet or would the grandfathering be lost?

It all depends on what the building inspector and the buyer's home inspector say.

Municipal inspections at the time of sale are getting more commonplace around here. If they have a fit and want it changed, you will have to come to an agreement at that time.

The house my daughter just bought required leveling of concrete (driveway and patio), but the previous owner chose to have the driveway replaced (score). The inspector also required all the receptacles be replaced with grounded, and a few other things which were more trivial.

BUT, the receptacles in the unfinished basement (which are not GFCI) were apparently okay.

[Brian Elfert]

I don't believe there are many cities that require city inspections of houses at sale. How would a city inspector even know you changed an outlet from single to duplex as long in you did it properly?

If you're worried about it get an electrical permit and have an inspection done. Really, older houses have electrical work done all the time without permits. As long as it isn't a hack job you should have no issues selling the house later. I got a permit when I rewired most of my house, but it was way more than one outlet.

[Wade Lippman]

I don't believe there are many cities that require city inspections of houses at sale. How would a city inspector even know you changed an outlet from single to duplex as long in you did it properly?

If you're worried about it get an electrical permit and have an inspection done. Really, older houses have electrical work done all the time without permits. As long as it isn't a hack job you should have no issues selling the house later. I got a permit when I rewired most of my house, but it was way more than one outlet.

I am not concerned about the town, I am concerned about somebody buying the house, getting an inspection, and then demanding that I replace the sewage pump with one on a GFCI. As it stands now, I am code compliant because it was done in 2005. I am not looking for trouble.

Might sound paranoid, but I sold my old house 3 years ago and the buyer demanded $30,000 in repairs. Needless to say the deal fell through, but it took another 3 months to find a buyer.

[Rich Enders]

From memory ours has the black water pump plugged into a single (non-GFCI) outlet. However that plug allows for something else to be plugged into it. Like piggybacking.

In this case the alarm is piggybacked into the pump plug.