Dovetails, Machine or by Hand

[Chris Parks]

Some advocate that doing DT's by machine gives a boring look to the finished product because they are all exactly the same, yet the people who meticulously measure and cut DT's are in effect getting the same result, exact spacing, sizing etc so what is the difference apart from the satisfaction of the handwork. If doing them by hand why not just lay them out by eye, why bother measuring at all as you may as well use a template and router. I have pulled apart some older furniture over the years and no way were the DT's a work of art or even nice to look at in a lot of it.

[Frederick Skelly]

For me, it's exactly as you said - just "the satisfaction of handwork". I did read an article by Frank Klaus and he showed how to do them purely by eye. Of course he has about sixty years of experience doing so.

[Mike Henderson]

Most people who do hand cut dovetails leave a lot of variation in the dovetails. Actually, since they're hand cut, you get variation just for that reason. There are other things that tip off that dovetails are hand cut. One big one is the spacing between the tails. With hand cut, most people make that space small, too small to fit the shaft of a router bit.

Additionally, you use a marking gauge to mark the limit of the dovetails and that mark usually stays in the wood.

I think most experienced woodworkers could accurately identify hand cut dovetails over machine cut dovetails. Doesn't mean that non-woodworkers could.

There's a place for machine cut dovetails. Let's say you were making drawers for kitchen cabinets. You want the strength of dovetails, but kitchen cabinets are not heirloom items. Also, drawers in kitchen cabinets are standard sizes so once you set up the jig, you can run a lot of pieces.

But in a chest of drawers you don't have the same thing. The drawers are usually each a different size so the jig set up is a lot of work. And the chest of drawers may be an heirloom item that will stay in the family for generations. If any of your descendants learn woodworking, they will recognize the hand cut dovetails and that you were a good enough woodworker to make good dovetails (good dovetails require mastery of a number of woodworking tasks).

Mike

[Chris Parks]

Most people who do hand cut dovetails leave a lot of variation in the dovetails. Actually, since they're hand cut, you get variation just for that reason. There are other things that tip off that dovetails are hand cut. One big one is the spacing between the tails. With hand cut, most people make that space small, too small to fit the shaft of a router bit.
Mike

Some of those I have seen doing them by hand on YouTube have no variance in them at all, they are all exactly the same and it takes forever to lay them out measuring to the nearest thousandth of an inch. The only difference I can see is as you pointed out they can be finer by hand which is nicer to look at.

[Greg Cuetara]

Not sure if I am missing something here but why would you measure hand cut dovetails? I use my 1/4" chisel, the smallest I have, as a gage and also a 7 degree jig that I made, two pieces of wood attached at 90 deg with a 7 deg angle on both sides. I put the drawer side in the clamps and then put them about the 3rd points so that I have one on each end and two in the middle. No real rhyme or reason just where I feel like putting them. After I get the tails cut I put the board on top to mark the pins and cut them out, they end up where ever they do. The actual angle that I cut and or the location are all different and unique to each corner of a drawer. No two are the same.

These are not the most glamorous but I know I did them and am happy with them.

IMG_0479.jpg

If I had to do a kitchen I would buy a jig and go to town but a one off piece like this dresser I am happy to take the time and make it my own. Yes there a lot of satisfaction to go along with doing them on your own.

Greg

[Mike Henderson]

Some of those I have seen doing them by hand on YouTube have no variance in them at all, they are all exactly the same and it takes forever to lay them out measuring to the nearest thousandth of an inch. The only difference I can see is as you pointed out they can be finer by hand which is nicer to look at.

Yep, I've seen those also. But you don't have to do that. And most people who do a lot of dovetails (I suppose I'm one) are not that precise - you just don't need to be - takes too much time. If I'm just doing workman dovetails - dovetails that won't show - I leave a fair amount of room between tails. They're there for strength, not for show.

Workman - for example, putting the bottom on a chest of drawers. I use half blind dovetails so they won't show on the side and nobody ever looks under a chest of drawers.

Mike

[John T Barker]

I've worked in a shop that did hand cut dt's and nobody measured like that. This shop did some of the best work around so my preference goes with that. I think, just my opinion, that measuring the joint precisely shows ignorance of what joinery is about.

[Allan Speers]

The best reason to do them by hand is that you don't have to turn on a router. (or a dust collector.)

[Chris Parks]

The best reason to do them by hand is that you don't have to turn on a router. (or a dust collector.)

Ain't that the truth!! or buy the bits, the template, the router or ear defenders!

[Robert Engel]

I have tried Klauzs method of eyeballing with a little practice it works and its amazing how fast it is.
Matter of fact, I sold my router jig.
In the beginning it helps to have a DT marker just to train yourself to the angles and square.
If you get square right, the rest doesn't really matter.

Once you start doing them this way, all the layout stuff seems a bit anal.

The only reason for laying out perfectly spaced DT's would be in a carcase or something.

I guess if you had a production shop making up multiple copies of drawer sides and want universal fit, then a machine is best.

[Peter Quinn]

For me its wide tails, very narrow pins and what ever spacing I choose. I develop a quick layout so they are similar across any number of drawers, but its certainly not measured in .001" or anything close, I just don't like variations of more than 1/4" in spacing. I think there are jigs that allow you to set up a spacing that looks more like had cut if its a visual. Its only a fairly recent thing that people wanted to see the dovetails at all, moldings and cock bead on older work were intended to cover up all that ugly joinery! I use an automated machine at work to bang out dovetails on commercial casework, nobody wants to pay us the asking to mass produce as many drawers as we make by hand, and I don't care how fast you are this machine will kick your butt. But its noisy, and messy, and very boring visually to me. So in the home shop...I either make dovetails by hand or use a different joint for boxes.

[Chris Parks]

I think most of us are afraid to practise enough to get proficient without all the aids. The other issue of course is if you are not doing anything on a regular basis the skill level drops off.

[Jim Dwight]

Right now, I have no proper bench. To cut dovetails by hand, you need a way to hold the material and that would be a challenge. You also need at least pretty decent hand tools. Mine would be marginal, I fear. But the main reason I reach for the router jig is I am not patient enough to cut them by hand. To those that think they can cut dovetails by hand about as fast as by router, I would have to see it. Maybe through dovetails but not half blind ones. I usually do the backs too because once the jig is in position and the router is set up, cutting the joint is a pretty simple couple minute exercise. That just isn't true for hand cut. Skilled individuals can put them out at a reasonable pace but not what the same level of skill (or somewhat less) will achieve with a router. And the comparison wouldn't be great even if it was possible because hand cut dovetails depend on sharp tools that must be sharpened much more regularly than a carbide router bit. So the joint cutting ignoring the time spent keeping the tools working well wouldn't be the whole story.

I also accept speed isn't everything and I admire people with more patience and skill at hand cutting dovetails. But it just isn't for me.

[Tom M King]

Sometimes the job calls for either or.

[Mike Henderson]

Right now, I have no proper bench. To cut dovetails by hand, you need a way to hold the material and that would be a challenge. You also need at least pretty decent hand tools. Mine would be marginal, I fear. But the main reason I reach for the router jig is I am not patient enough to cut them by hand. To those that think they can cut dovetails by hand about as fast as by router, I would have to see it. Maybe through dovetails but not half blind ones. I usually do the backs too because once the jig is in position and the router is set up, cutting the joint is a pretty simple couple minute exercise. That just isn't true for hand cut. Skilled individuals can put them out at a reasonable pace but not what the same level of skill (or somewhat less) will achieve with a router. And the comparison wouldn't be great even if it was possible because hand cut dovetails depend on sharp tools that must be sharpened much more regularly than a carbide router bit. So the joint cutting ignoring the time spent keeping the tools working well wouldn't be the whole story.

I also accept speed isn't everything and I admire people with more patience and skill at hand cutting dovetails. But it just isn't for me.

In my opinion, half blind dovetails are easier and quicker than through dovetails. The reason is that half blind dovetails hide most of the visible part of the dovetail. You really only have to get one surface good.

As far as speed, I don't see much difference. I can chop out the "socket" for the tails pretty quick. You don't do them one at a time, you do all of them in sequence. So you saw all the "pins", then put the board down and take the same chop one each one.

The reason people say that hand cut is faster than a jig is the jig set up time. For volume production, you can't beat a jig. But when you're doing "one off" dovetails, such as different size drawers in a chest of drawers, you can cut one set pretty quick. When using a jig, you have to go through a set up for each drawer.

Also, once you get good with dovetails, you only need a short practice before starting on your real ones. I recommend to people that the do a set of classroom dovetails before using the expensive wood if they haven't done them in a while. Dovetails are like a lot of "muscle memory" things (playing a musical instrument is an example). You have to practice to maintain your proficiency.

Mike