Eurosliders part 2 of a series

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Sure is a nice saw. Having seen Steve Jenkin's Altendorf, I can say that's the size TS to have!!!

[Bob Borzelleri]

John...


From the photos, it appears we have similar tastes in shop heaters and air conditioners.

...Bob

[John Renzetti]

Hi Lloyd, Taking a break from working outside. It's hot and humid out there.
I don't want to get into specific brands etc. That detracts from what we're trying to do here.
Any good Eurosaw should be able to be setup to give you at least .004" accuracy per meter of slider. You can tweak them more and get them to .002" per meter.
I don't precision rip boards on the slider. I've done it and it works, but I just like my own technque better. I do know guys that do and I've been told that they have ripped thin strips of veneer for edgebanding of 2-3mm thick with great accuracy and consistancy.
All machines require checking and regular maintenance. I will do a quick 5 sided cut to check for squareness prior to cutting up a panel. I also double check the lockdowns on the fence and outrigger. You never know when your wife or yourself will inadvertantly walk into that big fence.
The big benefit of a saw like this is the accuracy you get when cutting panels. The accuracy is needed if doing frameless cabinets and employing the European 32mm system.
Take care,
John

[lou sansone]

thanks john for your post. one thing that we can always count on is your fairness to the issue. it is refressing and really helps one take in the message that you are trying to get across. I am still mulling over my TS suituation. the sliders look interesting, but I really don't like messing with my outfeed table / work bench setup that works for me pretty well. I have been looking at the shorter sliders that seem like a good compromise for the solid wood processing/ non panel type of work that I do.


lou

[Mike Cutler]

John. Nice post. I like looking at the capabilities of the "euro" style sliders, and compare them to the operations of "conventional" shop machines.
It would be really nice to be able to rip the edge on a board like that, talk about speeding up the jointing process.
I can't say that I would ever own a saw that big, I don't really have the room. Something on a slightly smaller scale tho'....

Paul. I don't think that you're "nuts" for championing the "european style tablesaw", I think it's very fortunate that you were afforded the opportunity to explore this alternative, and that you had the foresight to jump in, so to speak. Everyone has the opportunity to learn from your experience, if they so chose.

Once again. Nice post, very informative

[Mark Singer]

Mike,

I don't know if you caught it, but I showed a technique using an aluminium extruded storefront section to "straight line" on the (conventional) tablesaw. If your interested it is in my door making post....one screw to hold it and you are ready to rip...scroll down to the bottom ...there is a pic or 2 ...It works real well and saves time.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...ghlight=balboa

John. Nice post. I like looking at the capabilities of the "euro" style sliders, and compare them to the operations of "conventional" shop machines.
It would be really nice to be able to rip the edge on a board like that, talk about speeding up the jointing process.
I can't say that I would ever own a saw that big, I don't really have the room. Something on a slightly smaller scale tho'....

Paul. I don't think that you're "nuts" for championing the "european style tablesaw", I think it's very fortunate that you were afforded the opportunity to explore this alternative, and that you had the foresight to jump in, so to speak. Everyone has the opportunity to learn from your experience, if they so chose.

Once again. Nice post, very informative

[Mike Cutler]

I musta' missed that part of the post. That's a pretty slick idea. I'm going to have to find me a piece of extruded aluminum, and fab up something similar.
Thanks Mark.

[Charlie Plesums]

...All machines require checking and regular maintenance. I will do a quick 5 sided cut to check for squareness prior to cutting up a panel...
John

How often do you find the machine needs adjustment when doing that test cut? I usually just check the width of both ends of longer panels, and haven't had to adjust the angle of the fence in almost 8 months, but my casual test isn't as good as a 5 sided cut. Do you think I need to test more often?

...The big benefit of a saw like this is the accuracy you get when cutting panels.
John

Not only am I embarrased by what I used to think was good accuracy on my regular table saw, compared to the accuracy I now easily get with the slider, but I would also include a tremendous increase in productivity as an additional advantage. I had finally accepted 20 minutes as the time to make a first "finished" cut on a full sheet of plywood (working alone, doing the shallow cut on the bottom to avoid tear out, doing a second thru cut in the same kerf, etc.). The first big project with the slider (a set of bookcases), I cut 21 finished pieces from two sheets of plywood, and realized that it had taken 20 minutes for all 21 pieces.

Even though I recently retired to full time woodworking, my wife's reaction was that I should have bought it 30 years ago, when I was redoing kitchens, etc., in our earlier houses. The combo machine is huge, but it does fit in our garage, and with ten minutes effort, we can still get one car in the garage.

[Chris Padilla]

John,

Is that window open for a reason...gotta hang some of the slider and board out of it? hahaha Sorry, couldn't resist.... Awesome slider, BTW....

[Keith Hooks]

Are there manuals online that would demonstrate how these machines operate? It's not obvious to me how you'd cut panels to size or crosscut boards, especially if there are different ways to do each task.

It would be nice to see an article in one of the popular woodworking magazines too. I've never used one, but I'd like to learn more. I have seen reviews of combination machines, but not an overview of how these things work.

[Sam Blasco]

...I will do a quick 5 sided cut to check for squareness prior to cutting up a panel. I also double check the lockdowns on the fence and outrigger. You never know when your wife or yourself will inadvertantly walk into that big fence...

I will do the 5 sided cut every six months or so for grins. There is another cut test that is nearly as accurate and much quicker, and I do this before any major panel or door job, using something inexpensive and stable, like MDF.

The 3 sided cut: I use a 36"-48", relatively square panel. 1) Cut one edge (this is now your reference edge). 2) Put the reference edge against the crosscut fence and cut edge #2. 3) Flip the panel so that the face-up side is now the face-down side. With the same reference edge against the fence, now cut edge #3. Measure the distance between edges #2 & #3 at both ends. If they are the same you are good to go. It hasn't let me down yet, and there are only 3 chances for human error to come into play. This method was taught to me by a Stiles Tech about 16 years ago when he was doing a service call on our biggest slider.

[Charlie Plesums]

Are there manuals online that would demonstrate how these machines operate? It's not obvious to me how you'd cut panels to size or crosscut boards, especially if there are different ways to do each task.

It would be nice to see an article in one of the popular woodworking magazines too. I've never used one, but I'd like to learn more. I have seen reviews of combination machines, but not an overview of how these things work.

The manuals that come with any of the machines are terrible... most are written in 5 languages or more, way too brief, and use terminology that only a translator understands. When I was choosing my machine, I found complaints about the poor manuals on every vendor's forum.

There was a pretty good product review of the small versions of these machines in Fine Woodworking, January/February 2003, Page 52-59. If you cannot find a copy drop me a note.

Let me try a very quick overview... The basic concept of all the European machines is that you work "beside" the blade, not behind the blade. Kickbacks are rare if you work right (they don't happen if you are perfect, but...). At the side of the machine, you are not in the line of fire if there is a kickback.

The slider is a table around a foot wide that is one or two hundredths of an inch above the saw table, on a track that runs absolutely parallel to the blade. My slider is 8 1/2 feet long, so I can rip the full length of a sheet of plywood, and clear the blade. Since the whole length of the slider goes by the blade, I have a clear area 17 feet long - the length of my garage...er... shop. Sliders are available from about 5 feet to 12 feet long. Various clamps and stops help hold the work in place on the slider, if necessary, since the table moves, and the work stays in place on the table.

A foot wide slider isn't enough to balance a sheet of plywood, so my slider has an "outrigger" a couple feet wide that comes out from the side of the slider about 5 feet. The outrigger has a massive support arm so that it remains stable, under heavy load, as it moves with the slider. That outrigger balances a full 4 x 8 sheet on the slider, so that I can trim the edge (either the end or side) of a full sheet, or make a final cut wherever. The outrigger has a cross cut fence that is about 6 feet long, and mine telescopes to about 10 1/2 feet - the angle of this fence is aligned absolutely perpendicular to the blade, and is a major contributor to the accuracy of cross-cuts on either sheet goods or regular lumber. I can take my outrigger off or put it back on in about a minute, if I need shop room, such as for assembling cabinets. It retains the calibration despite removal/replacenent.

Many sliders have an additional "miter fence" - like a miniature outrigger, with a fence that is "merely" 3 feet long. My miter fence has precise stops at the common angles, and can be set at odd angles to a fraction of a degree.

My combination machine also has a shaper, and the slider can also be used to guide work through the shaper.

Hope this helps.