I would like to add a sliding table saw to my shop. I understand the space requirements with regard to length.
Can someone tell me what i will need fro width?
[OP]
Guest
I would like to add a sliding table saw to my shop. I understand the space requirements with regard to length.
Can someone tell me what i will need fro width?
Member
I think you'll need to tell us what machine you're looking at, every machine is different.
Member
Presuming a Euro style format saw (Felder/Hammer/Minimax etc) the envelope is roughly as follows.
To the RHS of the blade will be similar to a traditional US pattern table saw, and is dependent on how much rip capacity you go for. Common capacities might be around 850mm, or 1250mm. Possibly more if you as is unusual hang a router table off the end. It may need more space to accomodate the positioner when fully retracted if you (unlikely) fit e.g. an Incra TS LS style fence.
The slider will be to the LHS of the blade, and is typically about 400mm wide. A 8ft length capacity slider (capable of handling an 8ft sheet, actually a few inches longer in length) will extend about 2/3 or maybe 3/4 of it's length past the line of the saw arbor in both directions before hitting a stop. Or equivalent for shorter length sliders.
An 8ft slider is typically also fitted with a support frame and cross cut fence to the LH side of the slider. This will usually have around 1250mm capacity, but may extend to a full 8ft (pardon the mixed units) capacity and include stops. It may simultaneously be run with a short 18 to maybe 31 in mitre fence fitted on the infeed end.
Those are only very round numbers. Best if you are seriously considering one and space is tight best to ask for a layout drawing/plan view for the model you have in mind from the distributor...
Last edited by ian maybury; 10-16-2015 at 7:45 PM.
[OP]
Guest
Thank you for the feedback.
My best figuring came up with as Ian suggested. But also as Ian suggested i could not get a exact figure anywhere.
I'm considering a new Felder or a used Format or Martin. If i could have a late model Martin TS 75 for the price of a new Felder machine i would choose the Martin. Otherwise either a new top of the line Felder or used Format 4 Kapa.
I have 12' my intuition tells me this will never be enough room. Although i don't need to rip sheet goods width wise i do from time to time desire to do so and being able to make 96" 95" on a table saw would be sweet!
I guess i should ask my Felder rep for a spec sheet...
Member
felder has a footprint diagram that show the space the machine needs for operation. what it does not take into account is the size board that you might have to the left of the slider. i have a 9' slider and it takes every bit of 20' to use the slider to its full capacity.
Member
You need 25' front to back and at least 14' side to side for a "full sized" slider...and by that I mean 10' travel with a full sized outrigger that can support an 8' sheet on cross cut. They have about 5' to the right of the saw on the fence side, and at least 9' on the out rigger, probably more like 15'-16' width would actually be comfortable. Thats to handle sheet goods. If space is a concern vertical panel saws take up less square footage of floor space and handle sheet goods as well or better IME.
"A good miter set up is like yoga pants: it makes everyone's butts look good." Prashun Patel
Contributor
I have a 10.5' Felder with ~50" capacity to the right of the blade. 7' of width will do for the body of the saw, but the carriage to the left on any saw you listed will extend 100" to the left of the blade. Slide travel lengthwise for my saw is 27' total. My gut says the Martin is bigger still; they're pretty substantial through the body, in part because the blade tilts in either direction.
K
Member
You can squeeze them into tight spaces if you really want to. I have a Felder KF700S with 9' slider and narrow rip capacity. It sits on the side of the garage and I park the car next to it. Once the car is backed out, I have no problem getting full use of the saw. Saw is placed so that with garage door closed (and car outside) I still have full range of motion on the slider. It works for me, but I am only a hobbyist, not a pro.
[OP]
Guest
After looking more into machine specs it looks like the KF700S would be my choice.
I am limited by the width of the door opening into my shop. It is something like 36"?
The top of the line Felder and format machines have a minimum of 39" transport width. I would imagine the Martin is more still. the KF700S is 31".
I figured i could make the saw work in my 12' of width space wise just maybe not to its full capacity. Now its a mater of deciding how crazy that will or will not drive me.
The good news is i have time to decide. I just took delivery of a AD941 and RL125 and about $2500 of Nordfab. Really im just trying to decide if i want to spend the another year saving for this machine or buy a couple much more less expensive mschines and round out my shop a bit.
On the other hand a spindle shaper would be real step towards rounding out my shop as much as any tool.
Member
Seems like you're not cutting corners on the spec of your machines anyway Patrick. Not 100% sure what's available in Felder as my stuff is Hammer, but a saw/shaper combination is a very good option with only a few downsides when space is tight. It makes available the long slider on the saw for shaping jobs too. I bought a separate shaper, but have to move it in and out of a corner - and while it has advantages that way (e.g. a set up can be left on it) a combo might have been better as my shop is tight.
The frame/support table that mounts off the slider is a big space eater. The steel structure hangs out by about 1300mm (check the spec - to the point where the support arm attaches) which isn't that big, but the fence mounted on it overhangs further, and telescopes beyond that. Maybe think of running a short fence? The table can theoretically be removed and replaced, but it's the sort of thing probably best left on to maintain adjustments.
Quite a lot depends on the size of the work you envisage routinely doing - especially if you have a mitre gauge with a short cross cut fence and set of parallel bars fitted. e.g. http://nebula.wsimg.com/a1a482ddd1b2...&alloworigin=1 The latter are officially a stop system for setting up rip cuts off the slider, but the arms cantilever to the LHS off the side of the slider for about 1100mm depending on the set you have (mine are DIY) and do a good job of supporting narrower panels) You might find it's possible to go for ages without using (or even fitting) the support table unless you regularly cut down 8x4 sheets of ply or something.
It needs thinking through in terms of the sort of work you want to do, but you can save space on the rip side too by going for a roughly 800mm capacity table instead of the wider 1250mm. I have an Incra TS LS fence with 800mm capacity on mine, and can't say that I've missed not having the option to go to 1250mm since most jobs with larger panels (e.g. halving an 8x4) get done on the slider side anyway. I tend to use the rip primarily where it's either to a fine tolerance necessary to cut a constant width strip, or when i can't for a quick cut be bothered setting up the parallels.
While as before a drawing should get you there best of all would be to find a machine set up somewhere and climb over it with a tape measure - trying out and measuring the various set ups/configuration options as you go. If you want to visualise it really clearly draw your shop layout to scale, draw a scale plan view of the saw and cut it out, and try positioning one over the other.
The other big space eater is the need for access around these machines to load 8x4 sheets or whatever - especially if you work alone. It's best to think through carefully and exactly the mechanics of the various handling tasks. If nothing else you need to be able to conveniently nip around the saw (on the rip side?) to remove cut pieces from the outfeed side - the table on a format saw is wide enough front to back that it's not always safe or even possible to reach over from the infeed side...
Last edited by ian maybury; 10-17-2015 at 7:09 AM.
Contributor
i've modeled the footprint of my 10.5' martin slider in SketchUp... if it would help, i'd be happy to send you the model.
Guest
Plus room for the lift to get sheets onto the awkward thing. I don't understand the desire for a slider over a panel saw.Originally Posted by Peter Quinn
Member
Patrick, these might help. They were sent to me by my Felder sale rep., Elizabeth R., when I were in your shoes not too long ago. She was very helpful.
K700SP drawing.pdf
K700S footprint.doc
Last edited by Wakahisa Shinta; 10-17-2015 at 10:45 AM.
Member
I agree I'm a vertical panel saw guy.
"Whether you think you can, or you think you can’t - you’re right."
- Henry Ford
Contributor
I use a 10' slider,I got it for the versatility.With a slider,you can cut angles,bevels,scoring blade,straight edge lumber,cut veneer,etc.
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