Space needed for full size slider...

[Patrick Walsh]

Good info.

I'm going to have to look into Altendorf with regard to exact minimum transport widths. My shop door opening is 37 1/4". At least with regard to the Felder line this limits me to the KS or the new 540.

I feel like with regard to Altendorf and Martin the smaller saws are all made by another manufacturer and rebadged? I dont know how accurate this info was but it is worth mentioning before i go making this decision in hopes i can get the real scoop.

What is the cost of the F45 or new Elmo. Same question with regard to the Martin TS75 and TS72

My shop is only 11' 7" wide (48' long), but I squeezed an Altendorf F45 in there. I did have to do some modifications to the saw, however, to pull it off. I wanted 97" from the blade to the left wall, so that I could skim cut the end of a 4'x8' sheet. That left me with 42" from the blade to the right wall, a crosscut clearance of 36" to clear the vertical overarm blade guard post, and 27-1/2" using the rip fence. Normally, the 27.5" rip capability to the right of the blade would be a problem, but with a slider, I can just use a parallel jig on the other side of the blade to rip any width I want. My only restriction is that I can't crosscut a single 4x8 sheet into two 4x4 sheets because of the proximity of the right wall. I mentioned this to a buddy, who added that there isn't a saw made that can cut two 4x4s out a single 4x8. Obviously, he was referring to the loss of the kerf width, and I got a chuckle out of his comment.

So, I guess you could say if there's a will, there's a way.

Regarding Altendorf prices... You'd probably be hard pressed to find a 5-10 year old F45 for under $10K. I've seen them as high as $22K. It all depends on condition, features and accessories, but also who's selling them. Machinery dealers love to control the market on these and inflate the prices. You'll save a lot if you can find a private sale, or grab one at an auction.

[Peter Kelly]

feel like with regard to Altendorf and Martin the smaller saws are all made by another manufacturer and rebadged? I

The Altendorf WA Series saws are made in China, the F-Series ones are still made in-house. Expect to pay over $20k for a new F45. I'd imagine new Martin sliders start at the $30k range.

[Max Neu]

I would guess a new Elmo or Martin t75 would be in the 40-50k range.They all have a base price, but by the time you get it the way you want it,you will be we over that.

[David Hawxhurst]

Patrick
Remember, with a slider, you still need a table saw and feeder for ripping hardwood,even though the slider is versatile, you still need room for other saws.

you lost me on this. i have a slider and rip hardwood a lot with no problem. one of the big advantages of the slider is straight line ripping rough lumber.

[Max Neu]

you lost me on this. i have a slider and rip hardwood a lot with no problem. one of the big advantages of the slider is straight line ripping rough lumber.

It works good for straight line ripping wider board's,but for ripping narrow stock like face frame material, a standard table saw with a power feeder works much better.

[Patrick Walsh]

Wow,

40-50K just will never happen.

I guess used it will be.

I really like new other than cars and trucks.

if I'm gonna spend 20K i want new!

[Max Neu]

With Your Budget, I would look at SCMI.They bridge the gap between the Felder class and the German class of saws.They are a pretty good value in my opinion.

[Patrick Walsh]

For reasons i wont get into on a public forum i would purchase a used German machine or a Felder before a SCMI...

With Your Budget, I would look at SCMI.They bridge the gap between the Felder class and the German class of saws.They are a pretty good value in my opinion.

[Martin Wasner]

It works good for straight line ripping wider board's,but for ripping narrow stock like face frame material, a standard table saw with a power feeder works much better.

Too slow, not enough power. You can pick up a used Diehl rip saw with a productive feed rate for less than $10k.

[Max Neu]

Too slow, not enough power. You can pick up a used Diehl rip saw with a productive feed rate for less than $10k.

I am aware of that, but I don't think that is the kind of setup the op is looking for.He's struggling trying to fit a slider in his shop,let alone a single purpose saw like a Diehl.

[Bill Adamsen]

My shop door opening is 37 1/4"

I'd be concerned that might pose a challenge.

[Max Neu]

I'd be concerned that might pose a challenge.

I agree, op might have to invest in a Sawzall before a new slider!

[Keith Weber]

Good info.

I'm going to have to look into Altendorf with regard to exact minimum transport widths. My shop door opening is 37 1/4". At least with regard to the Felder line this limits me to the KS or the new 540.

What is the cost of the F45 or new Elmo. Same question with regard to the Martin TS75 and TS72

I was told that the replacement cost on my F45 was $35,000. 2001 Model, 7.5hp, 3400mm slider, scoring, digital readouts on the rip fence and crosscut fence, and Duplex angle gizmo. The Elmo, with the CNC fences and stops would surely be in the $40-50K range, as mentioned. I purposely looked for one without the CNC fences because I don't use the saw to generate an income, and it would be very expensive to repair if it ever broke. Mine have digital readouts, but I have to manually position the fence and stops. If a readout packed it in, I could just revert to the manual measurement scales, so there would be no down time.

The F45 is a fantastic saw. They thought of everything on it. If you lay the rip fence down on its low profile side, the saw senses that you did this and adjusts the rip fence digital readout automatically to compensate. The roller at the end of the crosscut fence is so smooth, you'd swear it was turned on a lathe after the bearings were set. It puts a smile on my face every time I use it.

If your door is only 37 1/4", though, I'm afraid that you're not going to get an F45 through it. You'd need about a 46" opening to get it through if you left the slider on (highly recommended, as they're usually dialed in by an Altendorf technician. Even if you took the slider off, the cast base is 38" wide, and you'd have to strip everything including the operator's panel to get it that narrow. Personally, I'd cut a bigger door before I'd pass on having my saw, though.

I'm not sure about Martins, aside from the fact that finding a used one will be next to impossible, and they're probably at least every bit as expensive as an Altendorf. The Altendorfs seem to be more plentiful.

[Patrick Walsh]

So what is the story with Felder then or rather Format4.

Has anyone had experience with all machines being discussed . If the Felder or Format saws are built anything like my new Ad941 combo i cant see ever needing something much nicer. If nicer was just a luxury that cost me maybe 5k more for beefier castings and a cool fence thant slides by itself well then i guess the 5K would be well worth it.

IDk i guess im really going to have to think on this one. I am just not feeling taking out a loan for a saw or dropping $35k cash on a tool.

And i agree i like the electronic height adjustment on my Ad941 and would want all that jazz on a slider. On the other hand if that control board goes on my AD941 the part is $1400 and the machine cant be used till it is repalced.

Maybe im meant to slum it with $20K felder lol...

I was told that the replacement cost on my F45 was $35,000. 2001 Model, 7.5hp, 3400mm slider, scoring, digital readouts on the rip fence and crosscut fence, and Duplex angle gizmo. The Elmo, with the CNC fences and stops would surely be in the $40-50K range, as mentioned. I purposely looked for one without the CNC fences because I don't use the saw to generate an income, and it would be very expensive to repair if it ever broke. Mine have digital readouts, but I have to manually position the fence and stops. If a readout packed it in, I could just revert to the manual measurement scales, so there would be no down time.

The F45 is a fantastic saw. They thought of everything on it. If you lay the rip fence down on its low profile side, the saw senses that you did this and adjusts the rip fence digital readout automatically to compensate. The roller at the end of the crosscut fence is so smooth, you'd swear it was turned on a lathe after the bearings were set. It puts a smile on my face every time I use it.

If your door is only 37 1/4", though, I'm afraid that you're not going to get an F45 through it. You'd need about a 46" opening to get it through if you left the slider on (highly recommended, as they're usually dialed in by an Altendorf technician. Even if you took the slider off, the cast base is 38" wide, and you'd have to strip everything including the operator's panel to get it that narrow. Personally, I'd cut a bigger door before I'd pass on having my saw, though.

I'm not sure about Martins, aside from the fact that finding a used one will be next to impossible, and they're probably at least every bit as expensive as an Altendorf. The Altendorf's seem to be more plentiful.

[Kevin Nathanson]

I have a Felder K700. To say that it is a good and solid piece is an understatement! We are really slicing thin here when we argue the merits of Altendorf vs. Martin vs. Felder/Format4. Germany vs. Austria; not Italy mind you... Austria. They are all extremely precise machines, with excellent repeatability and high quality engineering. All of these companies stand behind their equipment and will make sure it is right if you choose to buy a new (or even a used) one.

So much of the decision comes down to how you plan to use the saw, what accessories you want, and who is actually going to use the saw. That last one is important! If you are the only one that is going to use the saw, that means that you will take care of it, maintain it, and not force or jam it. The same cannot be said of an employee. In that scenario, the robustness of the Altendorf and Martin may afford a little bit more 'bad operator cushion' than the Felder. Also, there is one feature available on those two saws that is not, to the best of my knowledge, available from Felder. They can both tilt 45º in BOTH directions with the blade. The Felder only tilts to the right. (BTW, this is only with the newest Martins and Altendorfs) I wouldn't mind having that feature, but I paid less than five figures for my Felder (used) and I wouldn't give up my 37" wide belt, my spray booth, my Agazzani 24" and my Kaeser compressor just to get a blade that tilts both ways, and that is what the math tells me it would cost me to do so!

K