Tall Cabinet Doors – Flat Stiles

[Justin Jump]

OK all, I have been through no less than 6 boards that are fairly flat from the supplier, only to go through the machining process to get them to 2” wide x 55” tall stiles, to have them bow.

Of about 10-12 attempts from flat boards, I got one piece pretty good and flat, and one “that will work”, but all the others are just too bowed to work, I could keep jointing and planning, but I’ll end up with ½” thick pieces….

How have most of you handle taller cabinet doors?

You can see my small pantry opening in the pics, and my attempt to catch the “bow” in the picture.

All my other pieces are fine, ranging from 3” up to 30”…..I had a few rejects in the 30” piece range, but not many.

bow.jpgstack.jpg20150823_190019.jpeg

[Malcolm McLeod]

You didn't identify the wood material/species you are using, but it certainly seems to have a lot of stress. Looks like you are painting, so perhaps use a different material? In particular I'd stay far away from softwoods.

I did some control integration/programming work in a lumber mill one time. System I was working on was a "curve saw". They fed the worst looking, bent, crooked, twisted logs you can imagine into the saw. Lasers 'read' the log and hydraulically manipulate it so the curves were always tangent to the gang saw blade cluster. It spit out multiple 2X dimension lumber (pine) with the same curve as the log. They were all stacked, pressed flat, bound, and sent to kiln.

The resulting lumber looks straight and true, but as soon as you machine it, the internal stress goes crazy. Ask a framer what building a house with it is like!

If you're trying to build cabinets out of this, you better get in touch with your inner Salvador Dali.

[Mike Goetzke]

I'm a made all the cabinets and doors/panels for our kitchen a few years back ( http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...hlight=kitchen ). I had some tall pantry doors. I milled my lumber and had to be in a production mode - meaning I made many long boards for the rails/stiles. Worrying about wood movement I milled everything oversize and let it sit for about a week before milling again and cutting the panel grooves. I selected the straightest ones for the tall doors. What you will also find is that the panels will straighten that bow out of the stile as long as it isn't too much.

Good Luck,

Mike

[David Zaret]

this is always a challenge - my designs always seem to incorporate long doors, especially on walls of pantries. i feel your pain.

i tend to use quarter sawn stock for the rails and stiles whenever possible, and ensure a stable panel with at least two glue lines. i let the flat, straight panel pull the stiles into flatness if they need a little nudge. so far, so good. in fact, the last door flatness issues i had on the last few kitchens were on small doors where i tried to be flashy and use a single wide board panel, with burl and curl in it....

good luck with your project.

--- dz

[John TenEyck]

How long was the wood in your shop before you started milling it? Unless the wood has internal stresses in it, which is certainly possible but not likely in 6 consecutive boards unless they came from the same kiln run and there was a problem, it's likely the MC was not in equilibrium with your shop. Rift sawn or quarter sawn lumber is more stable than plain sawn, but any of them will bow if the wood is not at or close to equilibrium. You can help minimize the problem by making sure to take off an equal amount from both faces and milling oversize and letting the wood sit for a day or two before milling to final dimensions. But if you start with wood that's at EMC with your shop you can work it to final dimensions in one go and not have problems (assuming it's stress free).

FWIW, a well respected woodworker had an article in FWW a few years ago that advocated dropping your wood on the floor a few times to release its internal stresses before milling it. Honest, you can't make this stuff up.

John

[Jim Dwight]

If you have the opportunity to rip wider boards down, a flat sawn board has edges that are essentially quarter sawn. The quarter sawn material will have grain running up and down if the board is laying flat. If you rip your stiles out of that it will help. I also agree completely with cutting and planning a bit oversize, letting it sit a day or so, and then machining to final size. Often my boards want to bow after cutting to rough width. But if you have an extra quarter inch or so of material and it is a decent board, you can re-machine and get what you need. I less often plane oversize and then to final dimensions but it is a good idea. I also have used a board bowed in the thickness dimension some by orienting it so that the concave side is towards the cabinet. That gaps the middle but I find that less objectionable than a gap at the ends.

If you really want flat and are painting, use mdf. It isn't very strong but it will be flat. I built some panels for a ceiling like flat panel doors (I wanted removable panels in the basement and didn't want to do a suspended ceiling) and MDF rails and stiles worked well. I don't like working with it but it is useful sometimes.

[Justin Jump]

I'm using soft maple - at least that's what I ordered. I have a few boards that are heavier than the others, might be getting some hard maple in there. I get it in either 8' or 10' lengths.

I used a reputable lumber supplier, guaranteeing the wood was kiln dried. I also have them S3S the boards to 7/8".

From there, I store the wood in attached garage, then a week or so before I take the wood up to my workshop where my mini-split is set to 70 degrees. My garage is part of the house, so its not terribly hot in the Summer, or freezing in the Winter.

From there, I ripped the boards to 2 1/2", jointed one face, jointed one edge, let the boards sit over night. I then joint one face and edge, plane to .720", rip the board to 2" wide, run it through the router for my Shaker profile.

I havent completed assembly right away, wondering if it should go right into assembly?

[Robert Engel]

Bowing is the hardest type of movement to deal with because its most due to stress, not moisture.

So, after all the talk about wood stress, wood moisture, incremental milling, acclimatization, etc. you are still going to get wood that will misbehave.
(Quarter sawn is great but even QS wood can misbehave).

The answer is splining. I learned this from a Charles Neil video on the Pie Safe.

Using a dado set, regroove the stiles deeper, to say, within 1/8" of the outer edge. It can be a bit tricky especially if the wood wants to cup toward the blade in so you have to use featherboards and use a splitter the same thickness as the dado to keep it from closing up.

Glue in a spline, clamp to a flat surface and let completely dry.

Regroove the stile. Spline is not visible except on the ends.

It will be flat and stay flat if you use a stiff drying glue (TBIII).

[Justin Jump]

Mike - nice post.....I cant believe I haven't come across that post before....looks like you may have lived/cooked through that, just what I did this summer, I got lucky though and was able to use the grill outside....

I see your long boards have a rail mid-way....wondering if that helps flatten out the door a bit?

I'm a made all the cabinets and doors/panels for our kitchen a few years back ( http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...hlight=kitchen ). I had some tall pantry doors. I milled my lumber and had to be in a production mode - meaning I made many long boards for the rails/stiles. Worrying about wood movement I milled everything oversize and let it sit for about a week before milling again and cutting the panel grooves. I selected the straightest ones for the tall doors. What you will also find is that the panels will straighten that bow out of the stile as long as it isn't too much.

Good Luck,

Mike

[Brian Tymchak]

I used a reputable lumber supplier, guaranteeing the wood was kiln dried. I also have them S3S the boards to 7/8".

From there, I store the wood in attached garage, then a week or so before I take the wood up to my workshop where my mini-split is set to 70 degrees. My garage is part of the house, so its not terribly hot in the Summer, or freezing in the Winter.

From there, I ripped the boards to 2 1/2", jointed one face, jointed one edge, let the boards sit over night...

I would let the lumber sit in your workshop for a week before any milling. I wouldn't even store it in the garage. Go straight from supplier to workshop. It's not the change in temperature that is the problem, it's the change in relative humidity.

I havent completed assembly right away, wondering if it should go right into assembly?

Yes, I like to assemble as quickly as possible after the final milling.

[Don Jarvie]

A few ideas. Buy the wood rough and mill it yourself. It will give you more room for error. I usually joint 1 side and let them sit over night. I take off enough to make 1 side flat. I may need to do this a few times before the planer. It takes a week or so to get them ready but the time allows the boards to adjust so they stay flat. You may have a few pieces that won't cooperate so just move on to new boards.

Use solid wood instead of plywood for the panels. The solid wood will give more resistance than plywood if the frames want to twist.

[Don Kondra]

For long stiles, I use a process I call reverse bent lamination

Best start with rough 4/4 material, clean up the bowed face just enough to get a reference point.

Resaw in half and glue back together on a flat reference point such as your bench.

Let dry for a day or so and treat as you would a normal blank of wood.

Cheers, Don

[David Zaret]

don, i like that idea a lot, certainly the composite piece with glue lines will be much stronger and more stable. but man, that's a lot of work....

[Mel Fulks]

I get out a couple extra long styles then demote the worst ones to shorter stiles. Rip rough lumber about 1/2 inch wider than finished width, pick pieces only straight or bowed ; use nothing kinked(bowed in two directions, face on convex side. Most pieces will straighten on BOTH sides even though you are removing wood on one side only. Check that statement by checking wood with straight edge on uncut side concave side before and after facing. After planing non faced side clean remove any remaining thickness on faced side. The wood is going to move ,make it move in the RIGHT direction.

[John TenEyck]

Do the simple, but most important stuff first. Buy a moisture meter and measure the wood you buy and compare it with wood that's been in your shop for several months. This: http://www.csgnetwork.com/emctablecalc.html or this http://buildingscience.com/documents...od-but-strange is very helpful, too. You may be buying KD wood from a reputable dealer but if it's been stored in an unconditioned warehouse for very long it's likely to be 12% MC in the Summer in PA, maybe even higher, and your shop with AC might be 50% RH = 9% MC. Or maybe the wood really is 6%, but if the EMC of your shop is 10%; you are still out of whack.

If you check your wood with the moisture meter when you buy it you will know whether it's OK to use right away or whether you have to let it equilibrate with your shop (more than likely). And the moisture meter will tell you when it's OK to use. Starting with wood of uniform moisture content inside and out, at equilibrium with your shop, puts you 90% of the way to trouble free milling. All the other stuff is just trying to fix a problem that wouldn't occur if those criteria had been met.

John