I use my friend's wide belt until I get my own.... Ain't nothing going to get it as flat as a WB but that's just my two cents.
Member
I use my friend's wide belt until I get my own.... Ain't nothing going to get it as flat as a WB but that's just my two cents.
Only one life will soon be past
Only whats done for Christ will last
Contributor
Knock down the high spots with a plane than ROS to finish. (Still learning to plane to a finished surface) I have a drum sander, but a plane is much faster and easier. Getting rid of the sanding marks from a drum or wide belt sander takes forever, and I always miss a few. (Though I note that in most commercial furniture they just don't bother and seem to be able to sell it anyway, albeit not to me)
In Memoriam
"Getting rid of the sanding marks from a drum or wide belt sander." ...................
Totally factual.
Contributor
Yes, but nothing gets a panel as flat as quickly as drum or, better yet, a wide belt sander. I read with near awe all those who can glue up panels and only have to hand sand afterwards. Really? A table top? Seriously? Never gonna happen for me. I love my drum sander because I'm just not that good and don't see the need to anguish over absolutely precise glue ups when the drum sander can bring it flat and true with little effort. Having said that I just had a 46" wide x 60" L live edge slab that I glued up from 3 pieces. At nearly 2" think the thing weighs well over 100 lbs. It was too wide for my 18x36 drum sander and too heavy to haul up out of basement shop to a wide belt sander then back down again to finish. So I glued it up as carefully as I could which still gave me a couple of spots on both sides with a mismatch of around 1/16". I flattened it with a #5 Jack plane. That's the longest plane I own so that's what I used. It took about 2 hours to get it flat and true. I only got the bottom flat, not pretty, but the top I got as perfect as I'm capable of. That means it looks flat and smooth, but it's still not as flat as what I get from my drum sander. And there were a few areas where the tear out was deep enough that it took me at least another hour with my ROS to get them mostly out while keeping the top flat.
Flattening can be done with hand planes but for me nothing beats a drum/wide belt sander for a flat and defect free surface.
John
Member
Jointing and thickness planing, glue up with cauls. Fore plane then ROS. Works for me.
Contributor
And we're only talking two orders of magnitude difference between the cost of the two methods!Originally Posted by John TenEyck
Last edited by Phil Stone; 11-03-2015 at 5:34 PM.
Contributor
I bought my used Delta 18x36 for $500. Many here think any plane short of a Lee Neilsen isn't worth having. I think a new #6 from them costs about $375. Add a #4 and you have another $350. But you're just about correct with the #5 Jack plane I used. I bought it at a flea market for $10. I use the drum sander on nearly every project; the hand plane only when there's no alternative.And we're only talking two orders of magnitude difference between the cost of the two methods!
John
Member
Festool Domino here.
Contributor
As others have said, I use a low angle jack plane, followed by a smoothing plane.
Member
I have just finished 32 table tops out of finger jointed 20mm pine panels for a restaurant that required one glue up for each table top and I did not want to use any jigs, dowels, biscuits etc. I found that after letting the glue sit for a few minutes in the lightly clamped joint I could align one end and clamp it then holding the two pieces at the other unclamped end I could move one panel against the other until the middle was aligned and clamped to prevent more movement, then I aligned the end I was working at, all done by just moving one panel against the other. It is important to let the glue go off a bit so it has some stiction and I think most of us are not used to doing that. Every panel came out just about perfect and at the most a few swipes from a No. 4 hand plane was all that was needed.
Chris
Everything I like is either illegal, immoral or fattening
Guest
Never had any issues with removing sanding belt marks from the door sander... only if you stick with 80 grit belts and don't change down thru the grades - Id go 80, then 120, then 240 on the door sander, then down thru ROS pads all the way to 1200 grit.
I finished my tables with orange oil and bees wax - which don't really "build" the surface at all the ONLY shine you get is what you create yourself with fine sanding of the hardwood - so any belt scratches would show pretty bad - but it wasn't ever an issue for me. Just pay attention to detail.
I went thru 3 stages of finish over 20 odd years!
Stage 1 was spray polish (varnish) mirotone - high gloss, then to 2 pac catalytic versions of same for harder wearing surfaces.
Stage 2 was pour on Poly self leveling finishes - again deep clear high gloss.
Stage 3 was minimalist approach - Orange oil and bees wax.
There was a reason for this progression.
Stage 1, I marveled at the grain patterns and wanted to display / highlight them as much as possible.
Stage 2, I still marveled at the grain patterns and wanted to flood them with that clear window effect.
Stage 3, took 20 years to get there... and eventually you do get bored after sawing so many boards each year - handling them all by hand off the log into the strip stacks, then into the kiln and out of the kiln, then over the docker saw - jointer, thicknesser etc etc. The novelty wore off I guess BUT there was one other thing swayed me... and that was after we built our furniture show room and displayed all this furniture we built & had the tour busses etc call in for people to walk thru the furniture crafts show room.
I got to WATCH a LOT of people inspect our wares over the years.
And i learned something really valuable.
Deep glossy varnish and poly type finish showcasing the grain patterns REALLY only engages the sense of sight! It's an artificial finish you can't smell it or feel it so your not engaging peoples sense of touch and or smell.
People (women who have had to dust/polish furniture in particular in their life times) were VERY reluctant to touch a dining table with high gloss finish in case they left finger marks - they never bent down and sniffed it.
As soon as I went for Orange oil finish with bees wax and a matt patina, especially with the natural wayne edge tables... people couldn't HELP themselves, they would walk down the length of the table and run their hand along it the whole way - they would lean over and smell the bees wax and orange oil (sometimes I used eucalyptus oil - the oil from the actual tree/timber that the table is made from).
So that finish evoked emotions from people, it engaged 3 of their 5 senses (sight, smell, and touch) it was as if they had "hugged a tree" - they would beam and smile and feel good about themselves and the world in general.
It became the standard I aimed for - if my furniture didn't make people stop, touch, & smell a table, run their hand down the edges... then I had failed in my mission as the furniture maker.
I get it that its not everyone's cup of tea..... but it's where i ended up after 20 years watching people interact with my furniture.
Last edited by Ian Moone; 11-04-2015 at 3:28 AM.
Member
Ian - i have gleaned a lot of tips & info off this site over the years and often leave better informed about this vocation and why I like it so much. I have say your post is one of the more profound I have read
thanks man
Member
biscuits in the joint then ROS. If I lined the boards up well, I may start with 100 grit. But 60 is sometimes required. I've used hand held belt sanders for this too but I usually just use a ROS now. They are about as fast and the hook and loop discs never seem to go bad - and sanding belts do.
Contributor
Don't sand to try to achieve flatness. Think of all that time, all that paper, and all that dust...... =
Cutting the fibers leaves a better surface than sanding, which shreds. = Handplaning
Unless you are limited physically, maybe then its the only way.
First with a #6, then a #4 followed by a scraper = much better finish.
And don't try to achieve perfection in the glue up = forget the biscuits, the dowels, the dominoes, whatever.
Glue it up thick and hand plane it down to perfection.
The only sanding you should need to do is final touch up on edges.
Contributor
This. And a little care when aligning the boards.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
