16"? WW Carey jointer on CL

[Wakahisa Shinta]

Please make a restoration thread! I'd love to see the process. It looks like an aircraft carrier.

[keith micinski]

Everyone is going to hate me but if you don't need a twelve inch jointer, I'm guessing you don't, a really nice 8" would cost way less when it's all said and done, be safer, and allow you to spend less time restoring a machine and more time woodworking. Plus I love the idea of making that a killer table base and think that's absolutely what I would do with it. Better have a pretty sturdy floor though.

[Doug Herzberg]

Everyone is going to hate me but if you don't need a twelve inch jointer, I'm guessing you don't, a really nice 8" would cost way less when it's all said and done, be safer, and allow you to spend less time restoring a machine and more time woodworking. Plus I love the idea of making that a killer table base and think that's absolutely what I would do with it. Better have a pretty sturdy floor though.

I hear you, Keith. I don't really need more than my 6" Delta, except its beds are a little short for anything serious. I do have a lot of rough sawn lumber in the barn and I'm hoping I can face plane it, but i figured out how do do that with just a thickness planer, so this will be a luxury if I get it fixed up.

Wakahisa, I'm not one of those guys who tries to make an old machine look new, and maybe I don't deserve this because of that, but I'll try to document what I do, save the old parts just in case, and share the photos. Don't hold your breath, though. I've got it in an unheated barn and winter is coming.

Since it works now, supposedly, I think the real danger is that I cheap out and don't replace the cutter head. It looks like a really efficient finger remover.

[Mike Cozad]

I'm not sure the fence is original.

Your fence is a carey original. I also have a Carey 12" that I bought for all the same reasons. Life's curveballs have kept me from the restoration but I will get to it. If you search for my thread there is an offer from another member to help with table alignment using piano wire. I also will be adding the head from griz as its a good price. The bearings will actually be easy in the big scheme of things.

Great find by the way!

[Doug Herzberg]

Your fence is a carey original. I also have a Carey 12" that I bought for all the same reasons. Life's curveballs have kept me from the restoration but I will get to it. If you search for my thread there is an offer from another member to help with table alignment using piano wire. I also will be adding the head from griz as its a good price. The bearings will actually be easy in the big scheme of things.

Great find by the way!

Thanks for the info, Mike. I'll look for your thread.

[Mike Cutler]

Doug

Before you go all crazy, find out if it works.
Check the Babbitt's for play. If there is no play in the bearings, you're in a very good place. That is an interesting design though. I have a 16" with Babbitt's and both housing are completely outside the table throat area.
The square cutter heads are monsters, but unless you plan on taking off a 1/2" at a pass, you're going to end up with a very narrow throat between the tables. A nice cutter guard and you just may be set. Those don't look like the original cutterhead bolts though.
It doesn't look all rusted and pitted to me. Nice find.

PS.
If you decide to scrap the square cutterhead, don't junk it. You'd be stunned at how much just the blades alone are worth.

[Erik Manchester]

Doug,

That is an awesome looking jointer, reminds me of this one I found a few years back that I think is English, a Wilson Bros from Leceister.

http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps2f0299be.jpg

The table on mine is 84" x 16" and has a 14" square head. The top is heavily corroded from years outside in a lean-to shop and would need some serious grinding to restore for use. Were I to got that route I would send the existing head to Byrd and ask them to make one to fit my machine. Something you could consider.

It has such clean lines that it may happen one day. Glad you saved yours from the scrap yard.

Erik

[Will Boulware]

Good man! Spend a little time and a little sweat equity on it and you'll have a better jointer than you could readily buy new.

[Doug Herzberg]

Doug

Before you go all crazy, find out if it works.
Check the Babbitt's for play. If there is no play in the bearings, you're in a very good place. That is an interesting design though. I have a 16" with Babbitt's and both housing are completely outside the table throat area.
The square cutter heads are monsters, but unless you plan on taking off a 1/2" at a pass, you're going to end up with a very narrow throat between the tables. A nice cutter guard and you just may be set. Those don't look like the original cutterhead bolts though.
It doesn't look all rusted and pitted to me. Nice find.

PS.
If you decide to scrap the square cutterhead, don't junk it. You'd be stunned at how much just the blades alone are worth.

Mike, thanks for the info on the knives. The top looks better than my vintage table saw. Mostly surface rust, no pitting.

That's a great observation on the width of the gap. The seller used it to face plane in a sawmill setting and told me he had to take it slow, so I don't think I'll be taking much in a single pass. I think the pulleys are set up to run the cutter a little slower than designed and the current motor is only 2HP. The seller also said he wasn't getting a finish quality cut, but he sounded like he never sharpened the knives. I don't see any nicks, but I think if I tune it up, touch up the knives and maybe bump up the cutter head speed I may be able to get a good result. I think that crack in the frame is allowing the infeed table to move a little, so fixing that is essential.

Long and short, I'm thinking of keeping it original as you suggest. The babbits are tight and the knives have a lot of steel left. Maybe a pork chop guard, as others have suggested, and then just don't stick my fingers in there. Push blocks always. I think I can work out a child safety interlock, too.

Do you know what the original cutterhead bolts look like? If I can find Grade 8's of proper size and thread pitch, will that do, or do I need more information?

[David Kumm]

Don, go over to the candadianwoodworking forum- vintage machines. There is info about square heads over there. While they were scary to use, they delivered a great cut due to the massive knives and angle of entry. There are experts over there. Dave

[Doug Herzberg]

Don, go over to the candadianwoodworking forum- vintage machines. There is info about square heads over there. While they were scary to use, they delivered a great cut due to the massive knives and angle of entry. There are experts over there. Dave

Thanks, Dave. They certainly are massive.

[Bradley Gray]

I have a 16" Fay and Eagen that is of a similar vintage - babbets and a square head. The tables of your jointer look to be about the same size as my 16" but my babbets sit outside the table on mine.

I had a toolmaker rework the square head. He cut slots for 4 modern straight knives and drilled and tapped for set screws and gib screws for height adjustment.

I have a 6" jointer also, so I only run long/ wide work on the big machine.

[Jeff Duncan]

I am not a fan of people telling me what to do, so I won't do that to you. I do feel it's good to give people information they might not know that could be helpful. With that out of the way there's a couple key issues you should know about square heads before proceeding. 1st is how important it is to have the correct bolts fit to the knives and head….you can't just grab any bolt off the shelf of the nearest box store. You'll also probably have a heck of a time finding new knives for it. 2nd and more importantly is the "why" when it comes to square heads being more dangerous. Unlike modern heads when a misplaced digit comes in contact with a square cutter head, the head will pull that digit into the machine. It won't leave you with a nasty scar after kicking your finger out, it will pull the the rest of your hand down and in! This is why people who know generally avoid them. Nobody ever plans to be careless around a jointer just like nobody ever plans to get in a car accident, but things happen. It's about hedging your bets so that if/when things happen your as protected as can be.

So I wish you luck whichever way you decide to proceed. Old machines can be great workhorses, but they also demand even more respect than their modern counterparts. Hopefully you get years of use making shavings with yours!

JeffD

[Doug Herzberg]

I am not a fan of people telling me what to do, so I won't do that to you. I do feel it's good to give people information they might not know that could be helpful. With that out of the way there's a couple key issues you should know about square heads before proceeding. 1st is how important it is to have the correct bolts fit to the knives and head….you can't just grab any bolt off the shelf of the nearest box store. You'll also probably have a heck of a time finding new knives for it. 2nd and more importantly is the "why" when it comes to square heads being more dangerous. Unlike modern heads when a misplaced digit comes in contact with a square cutter head, the head will pull that digit into the machine. It won't leave you with a nasty scar after kicking your finger out, it will pull the the rest of your hand down and in! This is why people who know generally avoid them. Nobody ever plans to be careless around a jointer just like nobody ever plans to get in a car accident, but things happen. It's about hedging your bets so that if/when things happen your as protected as can be.

So I wish you luck whichever way you decide to proceed. Old machines can be great workhorses, but they also demand even more respect than their modern counterparts. Hopefully you get years of use making shavings with yours!

JeffD

Jeff, I'm not taking it lightly and I appreciate the information. Sincerely. I'm leaning toward restoring and assessing what I have. If I can fix it and tune it and maybe restore it, that's the first step. If it turns out to be a great jointer, I'll think about spending more money on it and the trade off between taking it back to original and using it safely. Having spent some time with it, I can see that it isn't a simple matter to replace the babbits with modern bearings, but that would allow for a longer cutter head and a safer jointer. Turning down a modern head from a jointer which is being upgraded to a spiral head might be the answer and would keep it more like it was originally, although it wouldn't get me a wider cut, which I probably don't need anyway. It appears there are a lot of old PM knife heads around and my neighbor has a big metal lathe.

[Mike Cutler]

Doug

When I looked at the bolt heads for your cutterhead, they seemed to stick up quite a bit. They also appear to have a flat washer under them, unless those are flanged heads on the bolts.
Grade B8 is a nice bolt, but I'm not certain a stainless bolt is what you want. I don't know what the material is for my my jointer bolts, but the machinist that is making me a new set, tells me it's specific type of high strength carbon bolt. The bolt heads on my jointer are larger across. and lower in profile than the bolt head that you would expect for that thread size.
Here's the thread I started 2 years ago. I actually haven't got much further than where it is in these pic's, but now that I have both shoulders back, I can get after it. First step is to pour new babbits.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...ter&highlight=