I had a Lie Nielsen 103 on order and received a phone call today indicating they had retired that plane and they would ship the 102 instead. You folks likely already know that.
[OP]
Contributor
I had a Lie Nielsen 103 on order and received a phone call today indicating they had retired that plane and they would ship the 102 instead. You folks likely already know that.
Member
They don't have any standard angle block planes on their website that I can find, the original 102 & 103 are standard angle. Bit of a pity as they are useful for face grain on small jobs and can still be used on end grain if sharp enough.
It seems like Lie Nielson are discontinuing products whereas Veritas just keep on adding.
Contributor
I have a Veritas tool that has been discontinued. There was also a thread not too long ago about another tool Veritas stopped making.It seems like Lie Nielson are discontinuing products whereas Veritas just keep on adding.
If they can't sell enough of them, there really isn't a reason to keep making them.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Contributor
Rich,
It is disappointing when a tool you want is discontinued (I’m still grieving the discontinued o1 chisels); for what it is worth, I have several block planes but I grab my 102 most frequently now-I think you will like it once you have it in your hands and I appreciate the low angle blade. I am hoping these things are not emblematic of LN becoming "corporatized" (numbers driven, bureaucratic and wandering from their humble beginnings of supplying "desired" premium tools to discerning woodworkers). It would be visionary, I think, of LN to create a “Custom Shop” for products still in demand by discerning woodworkers albeit in smaller quantities. Many of us would be willing to pay a little more and wait a little longer to receive a product that we want (for example Kikihiromaru chisels are at least a 2-month wait; a Blackburn Dovetail saw is at least a 2-year wait and so on; there is a niche [and profit] for this approach).
Member
I have a standard block plane. After buying the LN 102 I use it more and more. But the small mouth opening limits it to trimming and fine shavings. It hardly tears the wood within reason.
I really do not see much benefit to keep 103 around as the bevel of the blade can be increased to a std angle.
Contributor
I think that you'll see more of their products discontinued in the future. If they continually refuse to come up with any news ideas I can't see them in business in the long term. Before all the LN fanboys purge me to hand tool hell, remember that the new batch of young woodworkers have grown up in the technology age where innovation is a given and is certain expected.Originally Posted by Trevor Goodwin
Lee Valley has firmly positioned their Veritas tools between the mass produced big box store tools and the boutique stuff. Added to that is they are always coming up with some sort of improvement that appeals to the younger woodworker.
Yes I know there will always be that old codger who will want to buy the traditional look tool but seriously how many are out there?
"If you have all your fingers, you can convert to Metric"
Member
Settle down folks! I hardly think that the discontinuation of tool here and there is signalling a death knell for Lie-Nielsen. I think they are doing just fine and will be around for a long time.
I also don't think that Lie-Nielsen tools are geared toward "old codgers". I like LV tools and use a fair number of them, but LN tools have always spoken to me aesthetically and functionally.
I appreciate that LV is committed to innovation in it's tools, but more sophistication does not necessarily make for better tools.
How many tools do you need? I would say that LN pretty much has the field covered. Why would you make more "NEW" tools people don't need?
Also I should just note that LV and LN have drastically different business models. LN only makes woodworking tools. LV sells all of the other products (gardening, hardware, gifts etc..). At WIA a couple of years back Rob said that the company makes more from painters pyramids than the Veritas line. I'll bet this gives them a lot more flexibility to experiment and add tools that might not be very profitable.
"Aus so krummem Holze, als woraus der Mensch gemacht ist, kann nichts ganz Gerades gezimmert werden."
Member
I'm still upset that they retired the cast iron version of these planes before I could buy one, though not upset enough that it keeps me up nights.
Contributor
On "American Pickers" Mike always says, "the time to buy something is when you see it."
I wonder how much these will increase in price on the secondary market.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Contributor
The answer to that question will be determined this week on ebay.
Member
Haha, that's my philosophy, unfortunately for my wallet I am not blind!
Personally, I am planning on retiring from the dividends from my "early, rare, scarce, and discontinued" LN large chisel plane. Maybe the next owner will find some use for it!
"Aus so krummem Holze, als woraus der Mensch gemacht ist, kann nichts ganz Gerades gezimmert werden."
Contributor
Hilton I couldn't disagree with you more! LN is doing better in sales than they have ever done in their history. Partly due to the large hand tool woodworking resurgence that has happened in the last couple of years. But the other factor is the sheer quality of tool they are producing for the price they are charging for it. I think you should take a trip to Maine and stop over at Warren and check them out, the large addition they are doing might tell the story better than I can. I promise you they are doing fine.
Contributor
Personally, I'd rather have the 102 than the 103. The 102 will do everything that the 103 does and it will also do end grain.
Mike
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
Contributor
I have the 20 degree-bed LN #103 and keep it handy to chamfer edges. It has a 25 degree bevel for a 45 degree cutting angle. This cutting angle aids in reducing the risk of tearout on fragile edges, where grain can reverse.
For the 12 degree-bed LN #102 to plane at the same cutting angle, you need a 33 degree bevel. I suspect that you would notice a drop in the "sharpness" of the edge.
The advantage of a low cutting angle - such as the 37 degrees achievable on a 12 degree bed - is in slicing end grain. Interestingly, the #103 does a pretty good job in this department.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Member
Back to LN retirees, the last iron #3 might be in Tom's toolbox.
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