Chisels maybe the wrong subcategory?

[Patrick Walsh]

I am going to purchase my first set or sets of quality chisels.

I have my beaters and they have served me well for the most part but i am wanting something nicer.

I want dovetail, mortise and regular old bench chisels. I don't know if i need all of them though?

I actually just purchased a Felder FD250 slot mortiser. I know this is the hand tool section. I am considering mortise specific chisels as my first purchase to clean the round corners and make them square as i do not intend to use floating tenons but intend to make traditional tenons on my rails.

My first project with the new machine will be three exterior passage doors made of 8/4 solid teak.

My initial instinct tells me buy all Lei Nielsen. Then i look around and the only other thing i find is Blue Spruce. Well there are Japanese chisels but it looks those may be a bit rich for my blood at least for the time being. Although i have to admit i wish that not be the case it is for now.

Do people have suggestions or preferences. Specifically with regard to the Blue Spruce vrs. Lei Nielsen as those are the two brands i am looking at.

FYI i put this in the hand tool subtopic as i figured you all would be the best people to ask.

Thank you much,
Patrick

[Jim Koepke]

Patrick,

Everyone here will be happy to suggest how to spend your money.

Lee Valley has a great selection of chisels all the way from inexpensive to top dollar.

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/pag...?cat=1&p=41504

I recently purchased a 1/4" Narex mortise chisel which seems a bargain for the price.

jtk

[Reinis Kanders]

Just make your tenons round using a rasp or file, much easier then squaring up the mortice. If you do want to cleanup the corners you do not need mortise chisels for that.

[Brian Holcombe]

If you are going to do the actual mortise cutting with a machine than what you need to square the corners is a bench chisel.

I would start off with long paring chisels and regular bench chisels, I prefer Japanese for both. You dont really need to spend a fortune, a basic set of koyamaichi in white 2 or blue 2 will do fine. If you are going to cut half-bling dovetails by hand than I would also get a fishtail chisel or two, but no need for a ton of sizes on those.

I have blue spruce, I've had and sold LN. Given the choice between only those two I would take Blue Spruce because I like the handles much better on BS.

Like most things, if you can get a chance to try this stuff out before buying, you may save yourself a great deal of effort and money spent. I know myself well enough to know I never stop where I start, but since there is no place to try things that usually means some turnover in personal stock. What I did for chisels was to buy a few of each brand until I landed on a few brands I really liked best and now I have a full set of one that I really like and will eventually have a full set of another.

[paul cottingham]

Narex are great all around, basic chisels. The new LV ones are excellent. I like the LN ones as well, but prefer the balance and weight of the LV.

[Patrick Walsh]

Thank you for the response. I am suddenly distracted by the Pat's game.

I did a quick google search after posting this "Lei Neilsen vrs. Blue Spruce and found some interesting banter.

The point of buying a chisel or two from each maker makes a ton of sense. On the other hand i am inclined to purchase full sets. Probably not nesisary and wasteful but it is my intuition.

What would peoples suggestions be for Japanese if money was no object. And also same question if money was a object?

[James Baker SD]

Similar to advice above, if all you want to do is to square corners of your machine cut mortises, then I would also consider corner chisels. I find them useful for such work. If you have small, but deep mortises, then paring chisels can get down to the bottom of a deep, narrow mortise.

[Patrick Walsh]

Im looking tomstart building a ful set of useful chisels of the quality i will keep for a long long time.

Im just about finished with my more costly tool purchases "machines". I still have a couple to go but i have what i need now to get what i want to do done. Its now time to out some energy and resources into smaller purchases namely hand tools.

So really im looking to start aquiring all the chisels, hand planes, sharpening stones so forth and so on.

Similar to advice above, if all you want to do is to square corners of your machine cut mortises, then I would also consider corner chisels. I find them useful for such work. If you have small, but deep mortises, then paring chisels can get down to the bottom of a deep, narrow mortise.

[Brian Holcombe]

Thank you for the response. I am suddenly distracted by the Pat's game.

I did a quick google search after posting this "Lei Neilsen vrs. Blue Spruce and found some interesting banter.

The point of buying a chisel or two from each maker makes a ton of sense. On the other hand i am inclined to purchase full sets. Probably not nesisary and wasteful but it is my intuition.

What would peoples suggestions be for Japanese if money was no object. And also same question if money was a object?

I wouldnt go hunting down a set of really wild Japanese chisels until you have some experience with them. Ouchi and Koyamaichi are great chisels, I would suggest you start there for a nice set of Japanese chisels. I think ouchi is going to be about $80/ea~ give or take, and they'll do well for you same as they do for many skilled carpenters/woodworkers.

No sense in spending for a 'money is no object' set until you are using natural stones and all of the other esoterica that comes along with it. The progression is worthwhile.

[Patrick Walsh]

I am semi familaur with the Ouchi but only from my best internet googling.

Mind you i am a carpenter by trade not woodworker. I am a woodwoker by hobby.

Point is i do understand how to properly sharpen a chisel and am capable. Granted i dont do it but i have and could. To date for my purposes a left over 12x12 piece of granite or marble flooring, a piece of 120,220,320 grit sandpaper has always sharpened my chisels as sharp as i need them for my purposes.

If you say the Ouchi are a worthwhile upgrade from my blue Irwins then i will take it step by step. Im not in a rush i just dont want to buy ten sets of semi expensive chisels before i hunker down and spend big $$$$$ on something special. Im just kinda a buy the best the first time type of guy.

Now with that said i am not about to purchase a 3-4K set at the moment. I am looking for something that is clearly a upgrade from my Irwins and random one offs i have tossing around my work tools.

What im after is a number of quality chisels intended for both specific and general tasks. At some point when i have pretty much finsished my shop purchases and i just gotta buy something i will buy the crazy stupid expensive chisel set.

For instance i have these doors i speak of to build. A number of louvered plantation type shutters, and a couple of cases that i want to join with half blind dovetails coupled with a million drawer boxes also dovtailed.

Anywho i appreciate the feedback. I will look into the Ouchi. I have read about them being the standard chisel of the Japanes tradesman. I. Not sire how true this is but if that be the case it sounded much like a set of Irwins hence i was leaning more toward something abit more pricy.

I wouldnt go hunting down a set of really wild Japanese chisels until you have some experience with them. Ouchi and Koyamaichi are great chisels, I would suggest you start there for a nice set of Japanese chisels. I think ouchi is going to be about $80/ea~ give or take, and they'll do well for you same as they do for many skilled carpenters/woodworkers.

No sense in spending for a 'money is no object' set until you are using natural stones and all of the other esoterica that comes along with it. The progression is worthwhile.

[Brian Holcombe]

That will probably do fine for general purpose, but for finer woodworking (more intricate work) you may find that you want a more refined edge.

I used the granite and sandpaper method for a bit but discarded it due to dubbing at the edges of the back that would take forever to work out in later stones. What I ended up at is using Atoma diamond plates from 140x to 1200x then progression to a medium stone like the chosera 3k and finally a finish stone (or two ) which in this case is a suita for most uses and an asagi for further refinement.

[keith wootton]

i was suprised by the size of the japanese chisels i ordered online. much shorter handles and also smaller diameter. i would suggest putting one in your hand before buying. keith

[ken hatch]

I am going to purchase my first set or sets of quality chisels.

I have my beaters and they have served me well for the most part but i am wanting something nicer.

I want dovetail, mortise and regular old bench chisels. I don't know if i need all of them though?

I actually just purchased a Felder FD250 slot mortiser. I know this is the hand tool section. I am considering mortise specific chisels as my first purchase to clean the round corners and make them square as i do not intend to use floating tenons but intend to make traditional tenons on my rails.

My first project with the new machine will be three exterior passage doors made of 8/4 solid teak.

My initial instinct tells me buy all Lei Nielsen. Then i look around and the only other thing i find is Blue Spruce. Well there are Japanese chisels but it looks those may be a bit rich for my blood at least for the time being. Although i have to admit i wish that not be the case it is for now.

Do people have suggestions or preferences. Specifically with regard to the Blue Spruce vrs. Lei Nielsen as those are the two brands i am looking at.

FYI i put this in the hand tool subtopic as i figured you all would be the best people to ask.

Thank you much,
Patrick

Patrick,

The trouble with Blue Spruce and LN is all their chisels (as far as I know) are A-2. Plain HC steel will hone to a finer edge and will be easier to hone. A-2 will hold an OK edge longer but will limit the stones you can use to sharpen.

Here is a quote from a David Savage email I received this morning. He is talking about the irons in block planes but it applies to any cutter: "...The planes we have to look at today have A2 blades which is a sadness. O1 steel would have given me a sharper edge except for something hand made inJapan...not that it isn’t good steel. A2. is great above 30 degrees, it hold a good edge but it is not “wicked sharp”. This I canjust about get with O.1. and it is NOWHERE NEAR as sharp as forged steel found in the best Japanese planes. A 2 is great for the amateur who doesn’t sharpen every hour of every day . This after all is the market. But I am looking for a professional tool for someone who doesn’t need “training wheels” to sharpen and can do it in a flash..."

ken

[Patrick Walsh]

So you are saying the steel japanese chisels and planes are made of can be sharpened much sharper than theirAmerican counterparts?

You are also saying the japanese steel is harder to sharpen but holds a sharp edge much longer.

Is this correct.

Just a tid bit with regard to handle size. I have a size large to x-large hand. Not bulky chubby hands but long strong big hands. Funny cuz i weigh 140lbs socking wet..

Patrick,

The trouble with Blue Spruce and LN is all their chisels (as far as I know) are A-2. Plain HC steel will hone to a finer edge and will be easier to hone. A-2 will hold an OK edge longer but will limit the stones you can use to sharpen.

Here is a quote from a David Savage email I received this morning. He is talking about the irons in block planes but it applies to any cutter: "...The planes we have to look at today have A2 blades which is a sadness. O1 steel would have given me a sharper edge except for something hand made inJapan...not that it isn’t good steel. A2. is great above 30 degrees, it hold a good edge but it is not “wicked sharp”. This I canjust about get with O.1. and it is NOWHERE NEAR as sharp as forged steel found in the best Japanese planes. A 2 is great for the amateur who doesn’t sharpen every hour of every day . This after all is the market. But I am looking for a professional tool for someone who doesn’t need “training wheels” to sharpen and can do it in a flash..."

ken

[Mike Cherry]

As someone who is on his way toward slipping down the Japanese tool slope, I got some popcorn in hand for this thread! Arigatou gozaimusu!