Here is a better image of Roubo scales, 12 inches to the foot (pied), 12 lines (lignes) to the inch (pouce)
roubo echelles.jpg
Member
Here is a better image of Roubo scales, 12 inches to the foot (pied), 12 lines (lignes) to the inch (pouce)
roubo echelles.jpg
Member
Well it would be silly for you to use a different language. This forum is based in the Unites States. When in Rome, do as the Romans.Originally Posted by Kees Heiden
Yes I understand that it isn't a problem for you when I write English and use imperial measurements.
Member
One-third of an inch is two (computer) picas, or one can use a scale ruler: http://www.amazon.com/Staedtler-R-En.../dp/B00006IAOX
Contributor
My comment about the moon was an attempt at a humourous response to what sounded like a suggestion that the use of inches and feet is a badge of benighted barbarians more at home in the dark ages than the internet age because "science" and "everybody else does it" (I am intentionally exagerrating a little, nobody discussing this has offended me or hurt my feelings, and I hope the reverse is true as well).
Metric does have its advantages in chemistry or some other field where you are dealing with the relationship between volume and mass, and things of that nature, but I don't do a lot of that with woodworking, and I basically think what you do with your ruler matters a lot more than how it is graduated. Like some others who have commented, in woodworking I tend not to measure much. Mostly it is a matter of a rough cut to get fairly close, marking against what I want it to fit, and planing, chiseling, or sawing to the line. 95% of my measuring is for layout or buying material, and it does not matter whether I am counting millimeters, inches, or hand spans.
Member
Something close to thirds are probably the most important division for woodworking -- for the basic layout of a mortise and tenons. That's why 12 can be useful. But that's mostly at the scale of timber framing. For most furniture stuff, it's more like a 3/4" board, with 1/4" mortise with 1/4" of wood on either side, or maybe 5/16" with 7/32" of wood on either side is better. I wouldn't go 3/8" mortise with 3/16" of wood on either side, that's too weak on the sides.
I like imperial, it's like the shaku, sun, bu of for us western temple carpenters.
clamp the work
to relax the mind
Member
Getting a third is awkward in either system. In metric you get a recurring number that isn't marked on rulers, and with imperial it is convenient for a foot (12/3) but for an inch it is isn't marked on rulers either. This got me thinking, maybe there is an imperial ruler that has its inches divided into twelfths...
Found this: http://www.whitechapel-ltd.com/category/bob.html A ruler marked in "twenty-fourths", which is almost the same as one mm. It certainly makes marking of thirds, or sixths of an inch easier.
Member
Bottom line is that both systems are arbitrary, but the convenience of easier addition and multiplication make metric seem like a much better option to me. That being said, I still use imperial for almost everything since that's what I am used to...
Member
Just having one standard system is, as far as I am concerned, way more important then any of the arguments posted here. I don't care if it is base 10, 12 or 16. Just choose ONE system, for fricking sake!
Contributor
I'm fairly comfortable using either. I have seen some talk about different rulers. One tool that most of us have is a framing square. On the back side of the square can be found scales in 1/10 and 1/12 and even 1/100. This applies to true framing or rafter squares. Thought this may help someone.
Jim
Contributor
The amazing thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from
While the various merits of each system are interesting, things would be simpler if we all used 1 system. I think it's the most complex in the states because we have to constantly deal with 2 different systems and regularly convert between them.Just having one standard system is, as far as I am concerned, way more important then any of the arguments posted here. I don't care if it is base 10, 12 or 16. Just choose ONE system, for fricking sake!
-- Dan Rode
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." - Aristotle
Contributor
Good one Daniel.The amazing thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from
Actually we have more than that in use. How else could an ounce of gold weigh more than an ounce of feathers while at the same time a pound of feathers weighs more than a pound of gold? (avoirdupois vs troy)
If one does much cooking they are sure to have some recipes that use metric measures, some with volumetric measures and some using weights of the ingredients.
Most of the world already has by using metric. Here in the states most of us have a system that works for us, yet we tend to be able to get along with what ever comes our way. There is seldom a reason for me to convert one to the other. Most of the time it is when looking for a wrench when it comes in handy to know which of my metric wrenchs will fit an SAE nut or the other way around and that 3/8" or 10mm do not have common equivalents in the other system.Just having one standard system is, as far as I am concerned, way more important then any of the arguments posted here. I don't care if it is base 10, 12 or 16. Just choose ONE system, for fricking sake!
If you want to read about the perils of conversions, search > gimli glider < for a story of conversion error and a strange incident that gave an airplane and a crew their moments of fame.
jtk
Last edited by Jim Koepke; 11-20-2015 at 12:19 PM. Reason: gimli glider
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Contributor
I beg to differ, Kees. The great countries of Liberia and Myanmar also utilize the Imperial system!
Member
No, not anymore! If I may believe wikipedia.
When I was in Myanmar two summers ago, the road distances were still signposted in miles. I think they might have some other priorities at the moment.
Administrator
More important to the conversion of the United States to the metric system is the cost. There are hundreds of billions in investment in machines in our machine shops, woodworking shops, etc. We also have an inventory of fasteners that is probably worth more then the total wealth of most countries.
You can't just flick your wrist and command any industry to change to a new system, particularly when the majority of the workforce is accustomed to a system that has been in use for almost 200 years. When the baby boomer generation is gone there may be a chance to make that kind of adjustment but until then it is probably impossible.
Kees, the majority of Americans who actually use a measuring system on a daily basis don't have a problem with the Imperial System. Its simply feet, inches, fractions and decimals which as natural to the older crowd as walking. I wouldn't change it for anything, I refuse to purchase any machine that doesn't support the Imperial System, the rare times that I have to convert is just a nuisance and its probably the same for those in other countries.
.
Member
That's not a problem, that's an opportunity. Do you know the costs of using a different measuring system? I am not an economics guy, so I really have no idea. I just have the idea that changing over would save a bunch of money. And it wouldn't happen overnight, stock could be used up. Hey, America allready decided in the 1960's to go metric. They should be ready by now.
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