Machine cut joints....imporantance of cleaning up with hand tools??

[Art Mann]

I decided a few years ago I wanted to be a craftsman, not a "wood machinist".

That is quite an odd comment considering this is the power tools forum. Are you saying that people who use power tools aren't craftsmen? I suppose people from the stone age who used flint to shape wood would call you a "wood machinist" because you use steel tools. You are choosing an arbitrary time in the history of woodworking equipment (19th century) and defining that as the time past which woodworkers aren't craftsmen. What is your reason for doing that?

[Pat Barry]

Good Morning All,

I watch a couple of woodworking shows and like anything in life there are always differences in how things get done. Tommy McDonald emphasizes that machine cut joints need to be cleaned up with hand tools yet other show hosts do not.

So, is this one of those things where if the joint will be seen clean it up where it wont don't bother?? I can see the benefit of cleaning up a half lap, which will be seen, but not a mortise and tenon if the joint fits snug off the machines.

Thoughts??

Thanks

George

I used my dado blade to make some half lap joints and found that the surface quality was not adequate to make strong joints. The joints were much stronger when I took the extra time to clean up the dado tracks with a chisel or sandpaper (removing the ridges). This allowed the two half laps to sit with more shared surface area and this then resulted in stronger glued up joints. Note - Its a misconception to think that glue is stronger than wood - its not. A proper glue joint made with adequate glue and two well mated surfaces IS stronger than the wood itself in many instances.

[Michael Moscicki]

That is quite an odd comment considering this is the power tools forum. Are you saying that people who use power tools aren't craftsmen? I suppose people from the stone age who used flint to shape wood would call you a "wood machinist" because you use steel tools. You are choosing an arbitrary time in the history of woodworking equipment (19th century) and defining that as the time past which woodworkers aren't craftsmen. What is your reason for doing that?

I understood his post to mean that he uses power tools to cut the wood as close as can be expected and then uses planes and other hand tools to get it exact. I guess hybrid woodworking is what that would be called. I think what he's trying to say is that he goes the extra mile on his projects.

I agree on needing to clean mortises from a hollow chisel mortiser with a chisel. It's unavoidable.

[Brian Holcombe]

There is a lot of convienience in hand tools. Consider that you can apply a flat and smooth surface to a piece at nearly any stage of the build. If you are reliant upon machine tools than you must use a sander to finish anything that is assembled to finish the surface, not ideal for critical surfaces that you would like to remain true.

As a practical example; I apply a tiny chamfer on nearly every surface with a chamfer plane that I have setup and ready to go. It leaves a finished chamfer that to produce with a router table or hand held setup would be slower and offer more potential for damaging the work and require finish sanding which will break the crisp lines.

I disgress, so rather than thinking either or, think in terms of both. I don't have shop capacity for machine tools, but those who do are not damaged by proficiency in both.

For the hobbyists it also means that you can minimize reliance upon needing professional grade machine tools. Consider that you can do things like create moldings with a set of planes that will cost much less than a shaper and bits.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I think both woodworking machines and hand tools have their place in the woodworking world.

While you may prefer one method over another and have reasons to justify your preference, that doesn't make it the right method for someone else. For anyone to suggest one method is more righteous than the other is just arrogant and narrow minded IMO.

I use both machines and hand tools. Generally speaking, woodworking machines can mass produce faster than hand tools. So if I have a bunch of tenons or mortises, for example, the machines are quicker even if you have to touch the results up with hand tools. The white oak swing I built for my wife required 51 (IIRC) mortise and tenons. BTW, when I take time to set up the mortiser correctly, I don't have to touch up the mortises with a chisel. I did the majority of the 51 mortises in a few hours. After having to repair a few tenons that were cut too thin, I now set the dado blade awfully close for a proper tenon thickness, check the fit, final trim the majority of the planned thickness error with a sharp low angle block plane and finish the fit to the shoulder with a sharp chisel.

Someday I hope to spring for a good shoulder plane.