So so frustrating...............

[Brian Holcombe]

Much more important, IMO, to ensure even scratch pattern and that the back is honed all the way up to the cutting edge. Mirror polish is not important.

On a small microbevel, inspect it in the light to ensure it is even and without distortion or scratches. Reason being, you want to ensure that the back and bevel are coming together at one continuous point, not interrupted and without a very tiny wear edge that can be hard to detect but will cause dullness.

[Jim Koepke]

This may be one of the best sharpening threads I have ever read.

I did try the receipt paper test and I can push it into the paper and cut. With a slicing motion there doesn't feel like it has any hang ups. I took a very thin shaving off of pine end grain and it left a smooth surface, I'm not sure if that meant anything or not.

You can be sure it means your tool is sharp enough to go to work.

maybe somebody can comment on a few things I'm sure I read in threads but can't remember now-

-how often should I rinse the grey slurry/metal off the Shapton stones?
-how much down pressure to use (I go light enough to get it to move but it feels like it's almost floating on the water)
-when freehand the bevel I establish the bevel and pull back only. Sometimes it goes smooth and other times if kind of bounces like being on the rumble strips on the side of the road, am I doing that wrong?

As mentioned above, the grey slurry is like a finer grit stone. I am likely what some would consider a sharpening slob. The slurry is usually left on my stones between soakings. Nor do they get flattened on a regular basis.

One of the most remembered lesson from a co-worker about sharpening was to push the blade into the stone like you mean it. This was with oil stones. Be careful doing this with water stones or you will end up with some nasty gouges in your stones. DAMHIKT!

My tendency is to press lightly on the push stroke and bear down a bit more on the pull stroke.

The bouncing or floating sensation is the interaction between the water's surface tension, the stone and the blade being worked. This is one reason my stones do not get flattened regularly. I have not tried the dish soap trick to see if that breaks the stiction. Right now my stones are dry and the tub they soak in is frozen over.

Oilstones in the winter, water stones in the summer...

jtk

[Jebediah Eckert]

Ah, now that I think about it, you are right: I don't get a mirror on the BACKS of my chisels. They are hazy off the 8000. I have a 3000grit diamond wheel on my Worksharp that produces a mirror finish. The 8000 dulls it back up. Even if I rinse the 8000 I can't get a mirror on the back. But I don't try that hard and it's never bothered me. I just figured I wasn't working hard or meticulously enough. I don't WANT to have a sharpening regimen that requires me to be too meticulous. I just want to be fast.

For my microbevels on chisels, I find the mirror (in addition to being easy to achieve on my Shapton 8000) is a useful visual indication that I've done enough. Like you, I prefer to freehand hone my chisels.

Thanks for checking, I feel better about it now. Still not sure why it won't but I guess the mirror isn't the end all.

thanks Brian and Jim, helpful as usual. Jim needs a heated shop....

[Tom M King]

A 13k Sigma comes real close to producing a mirror on a back. The two finest Diamond Lapping Films finish it in a few strokes each. No 8,000 stone I ever had came close to this progression. I know it's not necessary, but the few strokes it takes produces an enjoyable result. Type of steel might matter- I don't know. O1 is my steel of choice.

[Jebediah Eckert]

After a few more sharpening rounds on various things I went at my #3 smoother today.

I sharpened it like Christopher Schwartz does in his "setting up a premium handplane" video on YouTube.

Wow, never had this much forward advancement in sharpening ever. The technique is pretty basic using a cambered blade, micro bevel, and the "ruler trick". Not sure what worked itself out on the stones but it came off the 8k stone with a mirror finish. I then set the chipbreaker as close to the edge as I could and still catch the blade in the light. Reinstalled the blade, got it eyeball even then checked with a piece of wood that it was even. Went to the bench and I couldn't believe the finish it left. Absolute glass, I have never gotten even close to this before. I tried it on cherry, mahogany, and walnut scraps. When held up to the light it had a "glass like" reflection. I haven't tried any tough grain yet, I'm just going to enjoy the success for a little bit.

[Jebediah Eckert]

Not sure how well it shows up but here is one swipe on a cherry board.

image.jpg

[Nicholas Lawrence]

Glad to hear of your success! With so many of these things it is a matter of continuing to work at it until things click.

[Brian Holcombe]

You're ruined now....throw away your sandpaper

[David Eisenhauer]

Oh so nice when it comes together.

[Jim Koepke]

Don't you just love the way an old piece of wood shines?

jtk

[Trevor Goodwin]

Hopefully someone else can confirm this, but I find different steels achieve different levels of polish at the same grit. For instance my Japanese chisels are like mirrors after my Naniwa 8000, whereas my cheap blue-handled Stanleys still look a bit hazy. Doesn't bother me as long as they cut.

[Mike Brady]

This is an aside to your original question about sharpening technique. You stated that you wanted to "flatten the backs" of a new set of Lie-Nielsen chisels. One of the reasons for purchasing tools of that quality is that they come carefully prepared for use. Your chisels would have worked just fine with just a small additional bevel @30 degrees added to the primary bevel. Granted, you are wanting to learn the use of the excellent water stones that you have purchased, and that is obviously essential for all of you edge tools. The risk in trying to improve your new chisels by manually flattening the backs is that your lack of experience may have actually undone what you have paid a premium to get. I can't tell from your description if you did the entire back of each chisel, but the removal of fine machine marks need only be done on the first inch or so of the chisel's back. I personally don't go beyond my 6000 stone on blade backs, but that is my choice and I just don't find a need to do more than that to remove the small burr that forms when honing the bevel side. I find that very often, less experienced sharpeners will often round over edges of chisels because they are taking dozens of lapping strokes on each of several grades of stones and it is very easy to rock a narrower chisel during this process. Bottom line: In my experience, less is more.

The above applies to tools that come well-prepared. Some blades you acquire will not be in good shape because they may be used tools or abused tools. Practice on those, not your premium tools. On poorly maintained tools, I would recommend not using your waterstones to flatten; at least initially. This will wear your stones rapidly and cause them to become dished. A cheap Norton India stone would be a good place to start. I have also found that loose grit silicon carbide on a flat piece of cast iron works very quickly to flatten blades right up to the edge. After that, your water stones will easily complete the job.

I don't mean to be critical, but rather want you to think before you act. You could have posted here about your chisels before you began and saved yourself some trouble. You have purchased some outstanding tools and sharpening media. Perhaps you can find an old chisel lying around to practice on; then take what you have learned and move forward.

[Patrick Chase]

Hopefully someone else can confirm this, but I find different steels achieve different levels of polish at the same grit. For instance my Japanese chisels are like mirrors after my Naniwa 8000, whereas my cheap blue-handled Stanleys still look a bit hazy. Doesn't bother me as long as they cut.

That's because the abrasive breaks down at different rates with different steels. Generally more breakdown -> more polish, so it's unsurprising that the harder Japanese chisel would polish out more than the Stanley.

[Patrick Chase]

This is an aside to your original question about sharpening technique. You stated that you wanted to "flatten the backs" of a new set of Lie-Nielsen chisels. One of the reasons for purchasing tools of that quality is that they come carefully prepared for use. Your chisels would have worked just fine with just a small additional bevel @30 degrees added to the primary bevel. Granted, you are wanting to learn the use of the excellent water stones that you have purchased, and that is obviously essential for all of you edge tools. The risk in trying to improve your new chisels by manually flattening the backs is that your lack of experience may have actually undone what you have paid a premium to get. I can't tell from your description if you did the entire back of each chisel, but the removal of fine machine marks need only be done on the first inch or so of the chisel's back. I personally don't go beyond my 6000 stone on blade backs, but that is my choice and I just don't find a need to do more than that to remove the small burr that forms when honing the bevel side. I find that very often, less experienced sharpeners will often round over edges of chisels because they are taking dozens of lapping strokes on each of several grades of stones and it is very easy to rock a narrower chisel during this process. Bottom line: In my experience, less is more.

The above applies to tools that come well-prepared. Some blades you acquire will not be in good shape because they may be used tools or abused tools. Practice on those, not your premium tools. On poorly maintained tools, I would recommend not using your waterstones to flatten; at least initially. This will wear your stones rapidly and cause them to become dished. A cheap Norton India stone would be a good place to start. I have also found that loose grit silicon carbide on a flat piece of cast iron works very quickly to flatten blades right up to the edge. After that, your water stones will easily complete the job.

I don't mean to be critical, but rather want you to think before you act. You could have posted here about your chisels before you began and saved yourself some trouble. You have purchased some outstanding tools and sharpening media. Perhaps you can find an old chisel lying around to practice on; then take what you have learned and move forward.

I almost posted the same thing last night but then deleted it because it was a reply to a stale thread...

LV and (I think but not as sure) LN have bought some seriously nice lapping machines, originally designed for the semiconductor industry, which deliver much tighter flatness/roughness tolerances than are needed for any woodworking tool. Their tools should be usable with nothing more than bevel honing as Mike says.

[Jebediah Eckert]

So be it, and I appreciate the input for sure. If you go to the LN site there is a video by Deneb on preparing the LN chisels for use and that is what I went by. I'm sure they will work fine without it no doubt.