Book and Table Saw Recommendations?

[Michael Em]

Hello everyone

I am a total newbie to woodworking. I have always been fascinated with building things, it's just that money has never allowed me to work with wood the way I would want to, until now!

I am so excited about woodworking, I've already bookmarked about 10 different sits and bought about 12 books from Amazon. I've read through about 5 of 'em so far, mostly on stuff like Trim, Cabinetry, and some from the 'IDEA Series'. I do not know of one person who can show me things in my small town, so I have to figure out stuff via web and by books. I've already learned a ton about how things are put together. There are so many joint options it's unbelievable!

Question: Can you guys recommend a good book on Table Saws? That tool scares me the most. I don't want to cut off my fingers. I want to learn the proper methods to ensure safety and how to get the most out of my saw.

Question: Can you recommend a good table saw for under $1200?

I'm buying my tools one by one and next up is a Table Saw. I'm looking at the Grizzly G1023, but I'm not sure yet. Any opinions??? How much power do I need? I plan to build mostly stuff like a bedroom set, and custom cabinetry, and small stuff like that.

I worked my way through college doing AutoCAD for Civil Engineering and Arch firm, so I've already drawn up my first few sets of plans for things I want to build first! A big-wave surfboard out of all wood and a Video Game Arcade Cabinet for a bar-room, and a window seat with storage drawers for the family room.

So many questions but I'll try hard to find the answers first before I bother you guys. Thanks and nice to meet everyone in the world of woodworking!

Michael

[Vaughn McMillan]

Welcome to the Creek, Michael. You've found a great place to learn from a great bunch of folks. There's a good mix of people, from seasoned and acclaimed pros, to some serious weekend warriors,to the guys who are still learning a lot (like me).

I would think you could get a heck of a table saw for $1200. Many people start with much lesser saws, use them for many years, and build nice stuff. I'm not trying to talk you out of getting the best saw you can, but for the same amount of money you could get a very servicable saw and still have change left over for one of several other very useful tools, such as a planer, a jointer, or a killer router table setup.

Of course the other school of thought says you should get the very best tools you can, to avoid the need to buy them more than once. That is also good advice, but your budget and patience can play a big role in how closely you follow that rule.

For me personally, it made more sense to buy the best (in my opinion) $600 saw I could find, and spend about that much more on other needed tools and materials. Had I bought a more expensive saw, I'd still be saving up my money to buy other tools that I now use on a regular basis. Of course, your mileage may vary.

You don't mention your location, but if you've never laid hands on a table saw, I'd suggest checking around your area for any classes that you might be able to take, just to get your feet wet a bit with an experienced person looking over your shoulder. Also, depending on your location, there may be a Creeker who'd be willing to offer a little live coaching. (I was exposed to woodworking in high school, and did a fair amount afterwards, years ago. After way too many years of being away from woodworking, I'm just now getting back into it. If I'd never done it before, I'd be hesitant to try to learn safe table saw use from a book or the web.)

Oh yeah, if you don't already have Jim Tolpin's Tablesaw Magic, that's one book I'd recommend checking out. I'm sure others here will chime in with many other suggestions.

- Vaughn

Quick edit to add...the +/- $600 Ridgid 3650 contractor's saw just got a nice review in Woodworker's Journal magazine...I know I'm happy with mine. The bottom line of this particular magazine review was that there are a number of good contractor's saws available on the market right now in the $600 -$800 range.

[Frank Hagan]

I agree with Vaughn on the table saw ... you can look around for a used cabinet saw in that price range and get a good one, but if you're like me when I first started, you don't have a lot of confidence that you know what you're looking at with the used stuff! An experienced guy has an easier time buying used equipment. And if you're in a small town, without a lot of woodworkers, you may not have a supply of used equipment there.

So new, or one from someone you trust, is probably the best bet. I really like my Jet contractor's style saw, and its under $800 new. People here like Grizzley too, so search the archives and see what folks say about them. If you have a Woodcraft store near you, they will have a couple of brands on the floor you can take a look at, and get some "live" opinions from the workers there. But like all opinions, they will differ from person to person.

They sometimes have classes, and sometimes a community college will have a class on woodworking. I'd really recommend learning from someone in that enviornment for at least the table saw ... there are ways to make mistakes that can harm you, and learning while doing things the right way is probably the best way to learn.

[Norman Hitt]

Welcome to "The Creek", Michael. So the WoodWorking "BUG" has Bitten another poor Unsuspecting Soul. Well, you might as well know now, that the WW "BUG" is almost Never Cureable, and will hang onto you to the Grave, so you might as well start building up the Tool inventory now, but Mainly, learn to make Good Purchasing Decisions right from the start.

Note: Not always, is the most expensive tool the Best tool, but one should also remember that "Although you will ALWAYS PAY, for what you get, you WON'T Always GET what you PAY for".

Vaughn pretty well laid it out about the two ways to go on purchasing tools, and I agree. I will say though, that ANYTIME you settle for a tool that you have to replace, OR upgrade later, it costs you money that could have been put toward Another tool on your list. I had to use the cheaper tools for many years, and it sure cost me a lot of extra money to get to where I am today, by having to go that route. I now definitely buy ONLY the tool I want to end up with, no matter how long I have to wait to get it, instead of taking a lesser tool for the immediate gratification.

As to books, as Vaughn mentioned, there is Jim Tolpin's "Tablesaw Magic", AND there is Kelly Mehler's "The Table Saw Book". I have both, and you can learn something from each of them.

I also agree that if you let us know what area you're located, it might help us to help you with maybe some Personal help, equipment and material purchasing, etc. (I suspect you may be close to "Big Waves" somewhere, from your project list), and for that project, you're going to need some good hand tools also, like hand planes, spokeshaves, and scrapers at least.

I won't get into Brands, but I do believe that since the Table saw is normally considered the Center/anchor tool in the shop, I would go for a GOOD Cabinet saw from the start, and you should never have to replace it. Other tools can come as Need and Funds dictate. Do read both the Pros and Cons of the Left tilt/Right tilt saws though before you make your purchasing Decision. (I personally, am and always have been, a Left tilt man. Even though I've used the others, (right tilt), in other folks and co's shops, I've owned several saws but NO RIGHT TILT for me.

Good Luck, don't be a stranger, and don't be afraid to ask any question.

[Scott Parks]

Welcome, Micheal,

After doing countless hours of research on the web, I opted for the Grizzly 1023, because it came highly recomended, and the price was right. However, now that I have owned it for almost a year, I am disappointed (keep in mind that I am a perfectionist). I have mixed feelings for this saw. As a cabinet saw, it is a joy to use; lots of power, smooth, accurate, and easy to use. But from a "perfectionists" point of veiw, I've never been able to get a clean cut from it. I must say that Grizzly customer service has been top notch. They are willing to send me every part under the table until this saw runs perfect. Unfortunately, that hasn't happend yet. I'm on the third arbor assembly now, and still problem not solved. So... I'll be back on the phone with grizzly today. It would be so much easier if they could send a person to me to fix it, or I could box it up and ship it back. Unfortunately neither is an option...

If I were to buy another saw, I'd be looking at something with "local" support, or something that comes with a technition to fix anything that goes wrong. I have not enjoyed disassembling this saw 4 times. I would like to look at a General saw, because I think that is what I would replace it with.... But then yet, the price doubles My neighbor has the new Craftsman cabinet saw, and SWEARS by it. Heck, it even comes with a Beisemeyer fence, and I think it is in the $700-$800 range...

I can't figure out if I'm unlucky and have a bum saw, or if these really aren't top notch, or maybe I have a warped blade, or maybe I'm just an idiot... I don't know... But either way, I've spent 9 months tweaking this saw, instead of building projects...

I'm not trying to sway you in any way, I'm just explaining my experience with my 1023. Others here love that saw and are quite pleased.

[Michael Em]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm stoked to have found this place. I stayed up way to late browsing the archives and found some great information.

I live in two places actually. San Luis Obispo, CA during the Fall and Winter and in Madera County (sort of near Fresno, CA) near the Sierras the other part of the year. But I go back and forth quite a bit as I snow ski in winter too. The houses are about two hours apart and my woodshop I'm setting up in the garage of the Madera house. A little over two hours away so it's quite a short drive.

Ok I looked in the Fresno phonebook. Found a place called Ideal Saw Works and another called Woodworkers Central. Going to check them out soon. So does anyone know where else to go in these two areas?

I ordered up the two table saw books mentioned above.

Frank your exactly right with my confidence in table saw selection. I don't have a clue as to what I'm looking at and can't find anywhere in the phone books to buy this stuff used. I figured I'd end up ordering a new one off of amazon where I get all the books.

Norman, you make a good point about buying cheap and then having to upgrade later. I made that mistake when I got into photography when I was young and couldn't afford. Then soon as I realized what good lenses were, I ended up selling off and rebuying equipment. Cost me quite a bit extra money going that route.

Then I found out that a table saw is the center piece of the workshop, so I figure that I better make it a decent one from the get-go. Thanks again for the help and warm welcome everyone. Going to try and find more table-saw reviews in the archives.

Michael

[Ellen Benkin]

Welcome to woodworking and the Creek. I second (or third or whatever) the suggestion about taking some classes. College of the Redwoods is relatively nearby and they might have some weekend classes you could take. If not, save your pennies for a real vacation and go to one of the woodworking schools. It will be worth your time and money to get some formal instruction -- especially if you don't have someone nearby to call for help. The two stores you found may be able to point you in the right direction. Once you learn some basics (like joinery) you can go off on your own with designs and building. You will find that there are usually three or four solutions to any woodworking problem -- a class will teach you at least one and probably two.

[Butch Hayes]

Maybe I've had better luck than Scott, but from what I've experienced personally, as well as what I've read on various ww forums (fora?), getting a perfect cut on the G1023 has not been been a problem. I researched for months before going that route, and I've not looked back. The saw was very easy to set up, and very little was needed in the way of adjustment to getting it tuned as well as I can measure. I can still burn cherry without trying, but I can't blame it on the saw. Like you, I was not comfortable going the used route, so the extra $$ for new made sense to me (not that I didn't watch the ads in the paper for months). I came up with a list of about a dozen saws from reading and comparing specs. I looked for saws that seemed to offer good value and good performance. I knew I would never make my living doing this, but I had already discovered the failures inherent in a benchtop saw, and wanted one that would be substantial enough that I would never feel like it was incapable of doing what I wanted. I took my list out for comment, much like you're doing now, and the responses were pretty consistent: "You can do everything you want on a good contractor saw"; and "Cabinet saws are better than contractor saws, so if you can afford it, go with a cabinet saw." I got the Grizzly G1023SLX, and it has been great.

Oh, and as Scott said, Grizzly customer support is great. I also got the G0513 17" band saw from them, and am looking lustfully at the new G0586 8" jointer.

[Andrew Ault]

Michael,

There are many excellent tablesaws in your price range. Personally, I'd watch Craigslist and some other sources for a good used cabinet saw. I see a few per month in the San Diego area. I've found that many were purchased when someone got the woodworkng bug and don't have many hours on them. This weekend there was an older Unisaw for about $600 with a Beisemeyer clone 50" fence. You can buy cheap and upgrade...maybe never.

Classes are great. The important thing is to understand the saw, what's dangergous and what goes into a good cut. I think you have a good attitude about the TS. Powerful, capable and potentially dangerous. Spending time with an experienced woodworker is really valuable.

Getting a book is a great idea. Learn to use it safely. This includes knowing how to tune the saw so all the geometry is correct - and thereby safer.

[Roger Fitzsimonds]

Welcome Michael,

I have a grizzly 1023 saw and it was spot on out of the box and has been for the 2 years I have owned it. It might be that I am not as particular as Scott, but it rips streight and cross cuts accuratly ( I use a sled not the miter guage that came with it.) I will also tell you that saws are a lot like cars and wood workers tend to be very loyal to the model/brand they use. Have fun outfitting your shop it is one of these jobs that is mever quite complete. There is always something else that would be cool to have.

Roger

[Andy Hoyt]

For classes be sure to check the offerings that Chris Feddersohn has at Palomar College in the San Diego area. He's very talented, a good guy, and the woodworking program is top notch. There may well be an "adult education" type series to get into.

[Chuck Harris]

Welcome aboard,


A few thoughts. I am finishing up a round of upgrading some tools. Due to that I am fully in the mind set of save up and buy the one you will want/need in the future. Upgrading large tool can be a real pain if the old one still works. Few of us have room for 2 jointers 2 table saws ect.

The other thing that comes to mind is make sure you have room. I don't mean just running a tape measure along the floor either. Layout your shop space on a peice of graph paper. Then cut out peices of graph paper in the dimensions of benches tools and cabinets. Place them on the floor plan so you can see how things will flow in the space. cut out peices to represent 4' x 8' sheets of plywood so you can see if there will be room to move one through your space after you put a cabinet saw in the middle of other stuff.

[Elliott Cameron]

Michael
Elliott here. You have no doubt read alot of good advice here so far. Seeing as you are an admitted novice and have a slight fear of the tablesaw...I'm sure your enthusiasm is boiling over while your confidence level is somewhere near the basement. Right ?
Some advice for you my friend would be to start your tool buying adventure with a high quality 14" or 17" bandsaw. The bandsaw can do practically everything the tablesaw can do and do it safer for the torque of the blade is going down where as the torque on the TS is coming at you.
In most cabinet shops, where most of your work is straight-lined and rectilinear, the foundation stone around which every other tool plays is the tablesaw. The tablesaw EXCELLS at cutting straight lines.If cabinets are what you want to build then you need a TS.
On the other hand,the choice of a first machine MUST offer alot of flexibility. More than the TS offers.Most WWers probably won't agree with me on this but if you look at things from un-conditioned eyes, the bandsaw should be your FIRST major tool purchase.You can do more work of a greater variety with the BS than any other two machines combined.
A bandsaw can start the rough milling: slabbing out boards from logs(saving you $$$) ,rough out bowl blanks,trim out shapes for carved work,ripping boards to thickness and width,and RE-SAWING.The saw will then cover your joinery needs:
1) cutting tenons
2) finger joints
3) slot mortise and tenons
4) slot dovetails
5) half-lap joints
6)through dovetails
finally the BS can also be used for shaping,tapering,cutting circles,curves and templates, edge work and trimming joints
All of this work is done with greater safety and ease, less waste, and alot less dust than with the tablesaw. there is NO DANGER OF KICK-BACK from the blade because all the torque is going down into the table and not coming at you. Wait a minute, I mentioned that already didn't I.
If a board closes up there is little danger, for the blade is so narrow that the board can't be pinched by the blade. Another advantage of a thinner blade is alot less wood gets turned to dust(less waste= saved $$$) than with a TS blade. If you attach a GOOD fence the bandsaw will rip and re-saw and by changing the blade,you can go from sawing up logs to fine inlay or fret work. Of course this assumes you get a top quality bandsaw with weight behind it and well balanced wheels.
If you are primarily wanting to build furnture or use solid wood... the bandsaw is the FIRST tool for you along with a GOOD 6" jointer. If you can swing it...get a high quality 8" jointer and the BS & jointer will serve you the rest of your WW days. If, however you're going to be using plywood for the majority of your work, get a TS and a router.
Now don't misunderstand me, I love the TS. I just don't think it should be the FIRST big powertool you buy.The third purchase would be more like it, after you have built up your confidence level on the BS and jointer. Cutting your teeth per-say.Not your fingers. Haha

Some good bandsaws to get are the Grizzly GO513 ($845) or the slightly more expensive Rikon #10-340 ($999 delivered)Both these saws have 12" re-saw capacity. However the Grizzly offers a better fence.
As for jointers, I will let others talk about them as I think I have typed enough for one post to last the whole evening. I think I'm going to go to the shop.
Regards : Elliott FLA....USA

[Michael Em]

I feel like a sponge absorbing all that my mind can pack in! Thanks everyone for the great insight and suggestions I could have never found in books. This forum is already proving a great place to meet fellow woodworkers (wait am I officially a woodworker yet?), and pick up some valuable information.

I will keep you all up to date on what I decide to purchase and as I get it. Reading through the archives, I've learned that you have set tools up once they arrive like a table saw. These things don't come perfect from the factory ...haha. Oh my if I have to do any wiring? Electrical is not my strong suit! Better come with a well written manual (which I've never actually seen happen before with anything).

So far I have already bought some tools.

DeWalt Miter Saw DW705
DeWalt Drill XRP 12v Cordless
DeWalt Circular Saw DW364K
Bosch Jigsaw 1587AVS
Jorgensen Clamps, Sqaures, etc.

My purchase list (in order) looks like this:

Table Saw
Jointer
Planer
Drill Press
Router

Time to get cracking on another book. Today I learned about buying materials for a project from a book called Trim Carpentry and Built-Ins by Clayton Dekorne. Great book and easy reading and fantastic photos and diagrams. I love 'pro tips' in the corners of many pages.

Alright thanks again for everything on my opening thread. Feels like home ya know

Michael

[egon reske]

I do not have a table saw but have a radial arm saw.

Suggestions for table saw are :
Large very solid work surface with solid fences.
Easy to use adjustments
ability to mount a router
220 volt motor
good quality bearings
at least three different blades for different uses.

Egon