Sorry for another "what should I buy thread"....

[Anthony Roma]

I've been a member of a local maker space for a while. Loved having access to all of the tools. Ready to jump in and expand the home shop to the next level. I have a lathe, mill, 3-d printer, etc... So, the next logical step is a laser... this is 80% for personal projects and 20% to try and re-coop some of the costs (if I can)...

So... I've been shopping for a while... I'm looking in the 2-4k range... I figure if I spend less than 2k on the machine that leaves more budget to upgrade/fix/buy material to use with it...

I think my only option (budget wise) is to get a Chinesium machine (or a raging deal on a used machine)...

Machine 1
ebay.com/itm/US-SHIP-50W-CO2-Laser-Engraving-Cutting-Machine-Engraver-Cutter-USB-Port-/191267353778?hash=item2c886c34b2:g:rLUAAOSw6EhUSND r

Machine 2
ebay.com/itm/50w-CO2-USB-Laser-Engraving-Cutting-Machine-Engraver-Cutter-300mm-X-500mm-/301754502253?hash=item4641f84c6d:g:sSAAAOSwgyxWVmY k

I get the impression from reading that some of you can probably take one look at these machines and tell all of critical specs (what kind of laser tube, electronics, etc)...

To me they look very similar, machine 1 has a larger cut surface (400x600) but other then that they look similar.

Anyone have an opinion? 50w seems like enough to cut 1/4 "common" material...

Tony

[Keith Winter]

I would pass on both of these, low end Chinese machines equals trouble. The first seller goldraydigital is even too lazy to put his logo in his listing "quality" photo. Says your "logo here". (see screenshot of the listing page) His lack of caring enough to even change out his graphics says a lot to me.

Image 002.jpg

Second seller sunshinesmileservice sells everything from lasers to women's socks to bicycle parts to grills. A guy who sells socks as well as lasers...what happens when the sock dealer's laser breaks?

I'd advise you and anyone looking at cheap lasers to avoid ebay for lasers, you're bound for trouble with 95% of the sellers on there. If you cannot afford a domestic or at least decent Chinese, save your pennies until you can. You'll save yourself a lot of trouble. Just my two cents.

[Anthony Roma]

I expected a bunch of that... but then I see that you have a Thuderlaser... is that a better option? Does that at least rank as "decent Chinese"? what's better about it? Doesn't it use basically the same controller and laser tube? It's not a matter of saving my pennies, I could buy whatever I want, it's just how much money do I want tied up in the shop... I'm trying to find the sweet spot of price / performance... As for the buyers on ebay, the post is more about the machines than the outlets... it seems that a bunch of people sell basically the same few machines over and over...

Any advice/opinion is welcome... thanks for the help.

Tony

[Keith Winter]

I like my Thunder laser it's one of the more expensive Chinese lasers though a few more features than some of the others. I had one problem with a tube that they resolved and ultimately made right by me, and a combiner mirror that went out that I was really impressed with their response to. I had the part from China in a little less than week. Thunder is a builder not so much a manufacturer. G weike, red sail, jinan king rabbit are all manufacturers. Technically they all use off the shelf parts to some degree so you could call them all builders or assemblers but I think the three I called manufacturers pump out a lot more volume than say Thunder. What you do get with Thunder over the others, which drew me to them is more options standard, more quality control, and some upgraded parts. Does it last longer, who knows. Time will tell, Thunder has only been around a couple years I think. They also cost more than the others mentioned so potentially less issues but a higher initial cost.

Since you asked how it compares to the eBay specials.... When I got the thunder it was tuned and read to rock and roll except I had a tube issue (thunder doesn't make the tube) ultimately it was replaced AND I got $950 back not a bad deal. When you get that eBay laser it's going to be made of the absolute cheapest parts they can find with little or no testing. Chinese can cut more corners than you can possibly imagine to save money. Your odds of having an issue if not multiple issues right off the bat are probably 80/20 80% of the time people have issues and 30%-40% of those are fairly severe. When you have the issue they won't know how to resolve it because they are just selling a boxed item they know nothing about (think like buying a computer from Walmart vs a computer store). Or your game stopper issue will occur after the 30 Day eBay window and you'll be up the creek. Even if you find the issue right off the bat what are you going to do, crate it back up and spend $400 on a truck with a lift gate to send it back in hopes of a refund minus a restocking fee... To be fair this scenario can happen with a direct import too but most are inclined to help somewhat they don't want their name tarnished because the sell lasers all day vs the eBay seller who sells socks and a million other things too. If he has too much trouble with lasers he just stops selling them and starts selling pizza ovens instead...

As for the other brands:
Jinan King Rabbit comes recommend by people I respect, as does red sail and g weike. I don't own all four but if you search this forum and others you will learn a lot about and them from highest to lowest cost thunder, rabbit, red sail, g weike (there are many other brands out there too, these are the ones I've researched the most). Quality highest to lowest is debatable, but I'd say the exact same order based upon the thousands of posts and hundreds of thread pages I've read. G Weike being at the low end of both of those scales for the four mentioned, but all 4 being higher quality than the eBay machines in your original post. You get what you pay for.

Domestic Chinese are another story all together. Similar machines but US support. Rabbit, boss, automation tech to name a few.

[Bert Kemp]

you buy a 500 or 1000 dollar laser off ebay and thats what you got, nothing else like support, these are cheaply built machines why do you think they cost so little? and don't forget the guy selling them bought them for less.You get what you pay for and sometime less. You wanna by a cheap laser and then try to make it better, put more money and hours of time and all you do is end up with a more expensive cheap laser. These ebay lasers for the most part are junk, not because there Chinese but there cheap Chinese, you can find a decent one on ebay but not for 2k maybe 4 or 5 k and even then you'll have very little support. Now if you want to spend 4K and do a direct import yourself then you might get a decent machine and a small amount of support.Just take a look at what people are saying about these 500 and 1000 dollar machines, how they arrive broken and then the seller can't be found . Your statement ,"I expected a bunch of that and I see you have a Thunder Laser " Yes He has a Thunder laser he did a direct import paid a lot more then 2k for it, yes I have a Rabbit laser paid good money and its a great machine with good support. Not a flimsy built piece of junk. You say they look similar to you, well there not, you can't see the machine how its built the rails, the beds, ect ect.

[Bill George]

Spend some time on here reading and searching you will find the answers you want.

[Scott Shepherd]

There was a guy here about a year ago that bought one and he documented the experience in several videos and posted them on this forum. I had a quick look around and couldn't find them but they are around here somewhere. He posted all the problems he had and the problems he had getting it to work and dealing with the company. In the end, I think they left him high and dry with something that didn't work. He appeared to be a smart guy with a lot of technical ability and he proceeded to order parts and fix it himself.

I have no experience with the machines you have listed. They might be perfectly fine. One thing to note, from someone that's been on this forum for almost 9 years, is that I don't recall too many people who bought ebay lasers coming back on the forum after buying them and saying how awesome they are and how they are doing great. That's not to say it doesn't happen, just an anecdotal point that you'd think after 9 years of posts, you'd see at least a dozen or so people raving about how they got a great machine for little money and it worked fantastic. Yet, I can't recall one single story like that. To me, that speaks volumes.

You have plenty of options for low cost machines, I'd suggest you make that decision wisely and see what others have done that has worked.

[Roy Sanders]

Have you thought about self importing? I imported my machine from Nice-Cut. It is a good machine, I have had it over a year and still get support through email, whatsapp chat, and remote. I also researched the cost/benefit and i have a better machine than eBay at a lower cost, including the shipping cost. The idea of 'free shipping' is a game.

[Keith Sherwin]

Hi Tony, I bought a unit EXTREMELY SIMILAR to choice#1 - Might not be that dealer, but it looks EXACTLY like the POS I bought. DO NOT BUY IT. I paid extra (US$1910) for various items but they were not there - regardless of all the lies I was told. He even said that the mirror adjustments were "Auto Focus" and it was the software that would do 900 mm/s. I have looked at many before and after and IMHO decided that if there is any quality, they MUST have HiWin style square rails for ALL Axis, not just the X. If you want more info, send me a PM. Sometimes you don't even get what you pay for when ordering from China.

[Kev Williams]

Two years ago I bought a Triumph based on the experience of one user here. The entire order was done via e-mail, and I've been quite pleased with the machine. Last night I was cleaning the X axis rails and I was noticing how rigid the rail and laser head assembly actually is. I'm not sure if the rail assembly is considered 'good quality' or not, but everything it is as tight today as the day I bought it. The machine was cheap to buy, and obviously is not up to the standards of a western machines, but as far as overall build quality, I can definitely say it's not a cheesy machine. The blower they supplied left a little to be desired, but overall I have no complaints. And I've ordered some lenses and a few lens tubes, all via e-mail. In fact, I'd never actually talked to anyone at Triumph on the phone, e-mail has worked fine. Have no clue about customer service since, other than buying lenses, I've never needed any...

[Anthony Roma]

Good thoughts guys, thank you very much. I've been spending hours surfing this forum. Very impressed with how much information and knowledgeable people there are. It has been an amazing resource to go through. I like the comment about how you don't really hear that many stories about people that are happy with these extremely cheap machines. Good point... I would consider self importing, but that scares me a little (more fear of the unknown that anything).

It sounds like I should get a quote from Thunder, Triumph (I just went to their website)... If I'm going to spend a little more, what about the FSL? I hear very mixed reviews about their service. Anyone around that is happy with one of their products?

What cutting software is better than another? Or do they mostly use the same?

Is Redsail worth looking at... is 3,500 a good budget? maybe 4k delivered? What size bed do you guys think is too small? 400x600 seems about as small as you would want to go, but, I guess that depends on what stock you are using...

Thanks again for the comments, you guys are a great resource...

Tony

[Bert Kemp]

FSL I think the overall consensus of the forum is to stay as far away from FLS as you can get.Don't take my word just search the forums. Sure a couple guys will swear by them because they have them, but the more knowledgeable people here will tell you to stay away. I didn't listen and I bought one anyway and boy was I sorry. Then most people here told me that I couldn't go wrong with a Rabbit so I bought one and am very happy so far. You should also look at Boss laser ans Automation Technology Lasers there well known here and are decent machine for the Money. You can get a good decent Import doing it yourself from China and save some money. Several people here have done it and I'm sure they will share all the info you need to do it yourself. Just ask Dave Somers or Keith Winters they are just 2 that have had good success importing.

[Keith Winter]

Agreed with Bert on FSL. Red sail there are a few people on the boards who use them, I gather they like them fine. They are pretty basic machines, but also one of the less expensive ones. Depending on your use they might be a good fit. Maybe one of them will chime in on Red Sail, or try searching the forum I know they have multiple posts. Keep in mind both Red Sail and Thunder are imports so you will have to service it yourself, imports are best for those who are a little handy. If you want more hand holding I would recommend a usa seller that imports. That way you have more support in the usa. See my prior post I mentioned 3 of those. Automation I think even sells red sail for some of their machines (rebranded). For Thunder quotes you'll want to talk to Nolan. He's their sales rep, sold Gozzie, me and a few others our machines.

Good thoughts guys, thank you very much. I've been spending hours surfing this forum. Very impressed with how much information and knowledgeable people there are. It has been an amazing resource to go through. I like the comment about how you don't really hear that many stories about people that are happy with these extremely cheap machines. Good point... I would consider self importing, but that scares me a little (more fear of the unknown that anything).

It sounds like I should get a quote from Thunder, Triumph (I just went to their website)... If I'm going to spend a little more, what about the FSL? I hear very mixed reviews about their service. Anyone around that is happy with one of their products?

What cutting software is better than another? Or do they mostly use the same?

Is Redsail worth looking at... is 3,500 a good budget? maybe 4k delivered? What size bed do you guys think is too small? 400x600 seems about as small as you would want to go, but, I guess that depends on what stock you are using...

Thanks again for the comments, you guys are a great resource...

Tony

[Clark Pace]

Agreed with Bert on FSL. Red sail there are a few people on the boards who use them, I gather they like them fine. They are pretty basic machines, but also one of the less expensive ones. Depending on your use they might be a good fit. Maybe one of them will chime in on Red Sail, or try searching the forum I know they have multiple posts. Keep in mind both Red Sail and Thunder are imports so you will have to service it yourself, imports are best for those who are a little handy. If you want more hand holding I would recommend a usa seller that imports. That way you have more support in the usa. See my prior post I mentioned 3 of those. Automation I think even sells red sail for some of their machines (rebranded). For Thunder quotes you'll want to talk to Nolan. He's their sales rep, sold Gozzie, me and a few others our machines.

I have a redsail x700. I have had it for about 3 years. so far it has been a good machine. minimal issues. I ordered direct. Support has been ok also. It's not crazy fast at engraving. 500mm a sec max, but detail is good. It also cuts fine.

[Keith Winter]

I have a redsail x700. I have had it for about 3 years. so far it has been a good machine. minimal issues. I ordered direct. Support has been ok also. It's not crazy fast at engraving. 500mm a sec max, but detail is good. It also cuts fine.

Hey Clark! Was hoping you'd reply. Anthony, Clark is one of the people I was talking about with the red sails that liked it fine.