I would really like one of Daryl Weirīs restored Disstons, but I must admit I canīt afford it. It looks like the Warrented Superior goes really cheap on Ebay and there must be a reason for that.
What are the oppinions about them ?
[OP]
Member
I would really like one of Daryl Weirīs restored Disstons, but I must admit I canīt afford it. It looks like the Warrented Superior goes really cheap on Ebay and there must be a reason for that.
What are the oppinions about them ?
Best regards
Lasse Hilbrandt
Member
I have a couple that work really well. Get them sharp, and the wood won't care what stamp is on the saw.
Contributor
The Warranted Superior "lines" were used in the US to mark a company's secondary line of saws. In the UK, the WS was a top of the line brand thing.
Just a way for companies like Disston to sell more saws.
Member
"Warranted Superior" medallions were used by most makers for their lower-quality products, so you can expect the quality range to vary considerably. For saws from the late 19th century up to the 1950s, when the metallurgy was pretty much perfected, the stated quality of saws had as much to do with polishing of the steel and the quality of the handle as much as anything. They sold a lot of theses cheaper saws, and I suppose a lot of cheap professionals relied on them. I've used some ugly Disston products from the 1950s, with their downmarket labeling, and they were decent enough users, although the handles needed modifying for comfort.
Contributor
I did some googling on that "warranted " term couple years back. It preceded modern guarantee and is a little different ,it was done at demand of expanding middle class complaining about shoddy products. I see the "superior " as just a little extra gloss.
[OP]
Member
so if I get it right, a Warrented Superior is not a specific brand ?
Best regards
Lasse Hilbrandt
Contributor
Warranted Superior is also known as the Kiss of Death.
Member
Correct. Some of the Warranted Superior saws are actually quite nice. As others have said, though, all that medallion guarantees is that it's a saw.Originally Posted by Lasse Hilbrandt
I personally would never buy a saw from That Auction Site. There are too many subtle indicators of the condition of the saw - how straight (no bow, kink, etc.), how straight the toothline is, whether the teeth are regular in size or filed badly, etc. - to trust an online sale from anyone but a respected saw specialist.
Just stay away from those Warranted Inferior saws (insert teasing smiley face here).
Contributor
I have four or five of the warranted superior saws. From my limited sample, I have concluded that (in the U.S.) they were basically a generic hardware store brand, often made by one of the major manufacturers, similar to what Sears does with its Craftsman or Kenmore brands. Whirlpool for example made my "Kenmore" washer and dryer, and Sears simply paid them to put the Kenmore brand on it. The same thing used to happen with hand tools. Some of the warranted superior saws I have are etched on the plate for the particular hardware store, where you would ordinarily expect to see the etch for Disston, Atkins, etc. Quality does vary on the ones I have. Some are taper ground for example.
Buying anything on eBay is a bit of a gamble, and a dog meat Disston is still dog meat. If you can get the warranted superiors for a much lower price it might make it easier to swallow a "miss" if you are not sure if what you are looking at is a decent saw or not.
[OP]
Member
I just bought a warrented superior for 9 $. the problem is it was about 30$ to get it shipped to europe
Best regards
Lasse Hilbrandt
Member
I agree with what has been said. My take on WS user saws is that if I like the hang of the handle, I'm probably going to like using the saw. A taper ground saw does feel more responsive in use, but the slight extra weight of a parallel plate seems to help me stabilize my strokes.
That said, I only buy saws I can inspect (yard sales, flea markets, group second-hand shops) and I only buy Disston or some nice WS that has a good hang and a nice etch. Even the low priced eBay saws end up costing way more than I am willing to pay when the shipping is considered.
Contributor
Of course it all depends on where you live. When I was a kid, the joke was that you could not risk leaving your car unlocked if you stopped at a store in the summer. Not because somebody might steal it (which is the problem where I live now), but because if Zucchini was in season you might come back and find your car filled with an unwanted gift of somebody's else's excess Zucchini. The way some people tell it on these forums, they can barely drive to work in the morning without fending off some horde of hand tools trying to jump into their front seat.
That is not the case where I live. I could go to a dozens of yard sales without ever finding a hand tool. The same is generally true for hand tools at antique stores in my immediate area. I do very occasionally catch something decent on Craigslist, but my best tool source over the years has been the yearly Patina auction up in Maryland. The point is that what works for me might not work in Denmark.
I don't know if putting a wanted to buy add in the classifieds might help the original poster. Maybe there is an experienced member who has a spare of decent quality they could part with, which would help limit the risk of buying sight unseen. Does anyone know of a British forum for hand tool woodworkers? I have seen Stewie link to Australian forums, and surely the British have something similar. Perhaps there is a source closer to Denmark that would save having to pay for overseas shipping.
Lots of good information in the threads above.
Leading US all manufacturers like Disston and Atkins all offered product lines intended for the equivalent of the professional and homeowner markets. The secondary line for Disston was Challenger/Air Master and for Atkins Sheffield Saw Works. I hasten to add that even these secondary lines are far better than any full-size handsaw's being manufactured today.
Importantly US manufacturers produced top-of-the-line saws for regional hardware chain/Retailers, equivalent to their best branded products. The only difference in the saws is that the etch was for the retailer and the medallions - labeled "Warranted Superior".
For example picture below is a Disston #12 on top (their top-of-the-line pre-1928 model, widely considered to be one of the best ever made) and a Lakeside Hardware L112 below. The totes are identical (hand shaped, carved totes are often indicative of premium models from many manufacturers) and the specs for the double taper grinding of the saw plate are the same. Both saws were manufactured by Disston. The Lakeside has their etch on the plate and the warranted superior medallion. Both are fantastic users that get regular use in my shop.
DSC_0138.jpgDSC_0139.jpgDSC_0140.jpg
FWIW, if you know what you're looking for you can sometimes find premium, vintage saws made by leading manufacturers badged "Warented Superior" for regional retailers at a fraction of the price of the branded models. Caveat emptor you can also get some real stinkers with poorly tempered plates and soft teeth. Please don't ask me how I know, or I would be forced to admit owning, restoring/sharpening and using an embarrassing number of saws.
Don't get me wrong, I have a "bad saw problem", don't own a table saw and think quality, well tuned handsaw's are among the most frequently used and invaluable tools in my shop. That said,IMHO there is a fair amount of "black magic" attributed to premium vintage saws highly sought after by collectors. The best way to learn about the difference in quality among vintage saws is to get a micrometer/calipers, some quality saw files and learn to sharpen/tune your own saws. Nothing reveals the quality of a saw plate like how it responds to a file, how long the teeth hold a sharp edge and most importantly how it cuts.
Again IMHO If you've never used a quality vintage saw sharpen/tuned by an expert for the kind of work you do, I think you'll be very pleasantly surprised by how fast and accurately they cut. My advice is to start by getting a good saw tuned by somebody who knows what their doing as a reference of what you're shooting for, and then learn to sharpen. It's not as hard as it looks (however start with a saw you don't mind fouling up a little) and the rewards are worth the learning curve.YMMV.
All the best, Mike
Contributor
This is why I'm finding it so hard to break into hand rip-sawing. I'm happy as a clam with my bench planes, and enjoy hand work in general, but feel very intimidated about finding a decent rip saw, based on what I've read here over the years (and I can't even begin to contemplate sharpening the things). For now, my table saw remains my ripping method. I hope that changes someday.
Contributor
Don't be intimidated. The geometry on a rip tooth is very difficult to screw up too badly. Get a decent file, hold it level, at a 90 to the plate, and rotate it to match the geometry on the saw. Do every tooth the same and try to keep them all the same height.
Nothing like the every other business at a compound angle that always seems to result in me losing track of where I am on cross-cut teeth.
A properly sized saw bench makes a significant difference as well.
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