Veritas PM-11 Chisels Opinions

[Rich Riddle]

What do you folks who have used the Veritas PM-11 chisels think about their performance? I am looking for a set of good bench chisels and these are on the list. I plan to attend the woodworking show just to get one of these in my hand to get the feel, but your advice is needed. They don't charge shipping from the shows either.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Rick

You may wish to read this comparison of four chisel steels: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRev...sCompared.html

In a nutshell, the PM-V11 came in a close second to Koyamaichi white steel. Both were far ahead of an O1 and an A2 chisel.

Importantly, the Veritas is a nicely balanced and comfortable chisel in the hand.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Reinis Kanders]

I like them, but I also like my Narex ones. I do have relatively big hands and I chisel standing straight and do not like to hold the chisel blade when chopping dovetails. Narex balance is worse when chopping while holding the blade. PMV11 sometimes feel dainty in my hands, almost have to hold them by three fingers. I prefer Narex when using chisel bevel down to rough out some profile on the edge of the piece. I prefer PMV11 when precision paring and using a guide block to guide chisel.

[Patrick Chase]

What do you folks who have used the Veritas PM-11 chisels think about their performance? I am looking for a set of good bench chisels and these are on the list. I plan to attend the woodworking show just to get one of these in my hand to get the feel, but your advice is needed. They don't charge shipping from the shows either.

I hate to say this, but chisel performance varies hugely based on wood, application (mortising, chopping, paring), sharpening technique (including bevel angles), and cutting technique. If you clean dovetail sockets in Jarrah (I hesitate to call that "paring" although it technically is), sharpen like Derek, and cut/chop like Derek, then his comparison will likely be very valid for you. If not you'll probably want to try as many options as you can without breaking your budget.

I have O1, Cr-Mn (Narex), PM-V11, and HAP-40 (powdered metal M4 HSS - these are the same chisels as the 5th one that Derek used for "cleanup"). The PM-V11 ones are probably the best overall and are my go-to general use chisels, with a few caveats:

1. They're on the hard and brittle side and don't do as well as O1 at really low bevel angles like 20 deg. PM-V11 wouldn't be my first choice in a pure paring chisel (one that is used to take ultra-thin cuts by hand), though neither would A2, which is even less tough.

2. Also because it's on the hard and brittle side, PM-V11 as hardened in the LV chisels wouldn't be my first (or second, or third) choice for traditional hand-mortising, though they're great for cleaning up the sides of a drilled mortise. I say "as hardened as..." because temper matters as much as the steel. For example O1 and White are similar (high-carbon, low-alloy) steels by composition, but they're processed very differently. I don't know what PM-V11 is or now tough it could be made if tempered to higher temperature. If it really is CTS-XHP then LV is pushing it towards the hard/brittle end of its range. D2 isn't that different from CTS-XHP in composition and it can be used to make great pigstickers.

3. Different steels have different optimal bevel angles, so to really compare them you have to take the time to optimize each (best balance of effort and wear) for how you work. I suspect the Veritas PM-V11 chisel would have done even better in Derek's specific application if honed at 30 deg like the rest - It failed by chipping, which is a sure sign that the angle was too low for the application (and FWIW the PM-V11 chisels that I use for socket-cleaning are honed at 30 deg because I saw chipping at lower angles). Ditto for A2, which might have done better at 35 deg for that application as it failed quickly by chipping (an even surer sign of under-beveling) and is more brittle than PM-V11. Conversely the O1 chisel might have done as well or better at 25 deg - the fact that it failed by dulling suggests it wasn't under-beveled, though anything beyond that is guesswork. In fact the only chisel in that test that was definitely at its optimal angle based on my experience with the same metals was the HAP40 one (I use mine for socket-cleaning at 32 deg but they're tough enough to go a bit lower. Stu recommends 30). EDIT: I have minimal experience (only 1 chisel) with laminated white steel, so I don't know how optimal 30 deg was, though I do know that it benefits from higher angles than does conventionally tempered O1/HCS.

EDIT: Note that "application" above includes the user. I'm on the "forceful" side and tend to benefit from higher bevel angles and tougher steels than some others I know. I suspect from Derek's results that he's actually fairly close to me (though it may be that Jarrah makes everybody look ham-fisted...).

[Patrick Chase]

I like them, but I also like my Narex ones. I do have relatively big hands and I chisel standing straight and do not like to hold the chisel blade when chopping dovetails. Narex balance is worse when chopping while holding the blade. PMV11 sometimes feel dainty in my hands, almost have to hold them by three fingers. I prefer Narex when using chisel bevel down to rough out some profile on the edge of the piece. I prefer PMV11 when precision paring and using a guide block to guide chisel.

Narex are pretty nice. I use their pigstickers (they're tough and can take the abuse) and paring chisels (they don't chip at lower bevel angles). I also reach for my set of Narex bench chisels for anything that I don't want to risk a PM-V11 or HAP40 chisel on (for example, if somebody else comes over to play and needs to borrow a chisel :-).

Their biggest vice, and this may only matter to OCD sufferers like me, is that they tend to "self-dub" ever so slightly when you regrind the primary bevel. By this I mean that the base curls up a teeny bit right at the tip as a result of removing material from the bevel. I suspect that they have some residual stress (they aren't tempered in the conventional sense) such that the outside is under compression and the core is under tension. Grinding away the core above the leading edge would therefore cause it to curl up. It's easy enough to clean up by re-lapping the bottom a bit, but I only bother doing that for the parers.

[Mike Henderson]

I have a complete set of the PM-V11 chisels (with a couple of duplicates) and like them. I use them mostly for chopping dovetails and they seem to hold up well. Not sorry I bought them.

I also have plain carbon steel chisels and A2 (LN) chisels. The LN chisels do a good job, also but I seem to go for the PM-V11 chisels first.

Mike

[Matthew N. Masail]

I really like old chisels, ones with real hand forged bolsters. after buying several sets and selling them, I ended up buying a bunch of bevel edge and firmer chisels off the bay. they require more work to flatten but you end up with exactly what you need. Firmers for chopping, bevel edge for paring and dovetail chopping, and you can just pick up extra in the same size if you like to bevels set up differently. Narex are a very nice tool, I would change the handle and remove the machine looking finish from the blade, buy they take and hold an edge well. the steel in a little gummy feeling compared to vintage stuff, but you might not be bothered by that. the bottom line is that is hardly matters which chisel you use, if it holds an proper edge, you can do work with it. how they feel in your hand and the blade profile play a great role IMO which choosing chisels. for this reason I would not recommend spending big bucks on PMV chisels, if you really what to know what you like, order one of each option give them a test drive, that's better than putting all your eggs in one basket.

[Niels Cosman]

They are great. I tend to use them mostly for chopping tasks and they are superb. The edges hold up very well.
I also have a pair of LN's (that I also love). For more detail work I tend to prefer the LN's simply because the socket chisels tend to feel less top heavy when grasping at the base. The veritas handles are very light which doesn't make this a huge issue.
I really like The Veritas chisels for two handed operations, like carving. One thing is that they lands of the edges are quite sharp and I find that I often am cutting my skin at the second knuckle of the guiding hand. I have lightly stoned the edges 1' back from the cutting surface which mostly takes care of that!

[Chris Hachet]

I would be buying a set if I did not have several LN and Japanese chisels. I cannot justify the expense of getting rid of what I have just to have the PMV 11, although PMV 11 seems to stay sharp forever.

YMMV.

[Matt Radtke]

I have a near-complete set. I think I'm missing the 3/16 and 1 inch.

I like them a lot--just the balance and everything is spot on. The PM-v11 is just like a cherry on top.

[Mike Holbrook]

I have two Veritas PM-V11 chisels, 3/16 and 3/8". I use mine mostly for fine hand work. I use Japanese Koyamachi and Ouchi chisels, bench & mortise, with a Japanese steel hammer for larger, square, stock removal. I like the precise feel working with the hammer. I get a little nervous trying to drive a larger, razor sharp, chisel by hand in hard wood. For the even larger green wood jobs I use Swedish gouges and carving gouges/chisels made by Hans Karlsson & sons in Sweden. The Swedish gouges can be struck or used by hand. These are large very sturdy tools designed for carving, making bowls, cups, spoons, platters, more curvy work than the straight edged work commonly done with bench chisels. I thought I would toss gouges into the mix as I typically use them more often than my bench chisels and they are not often mentioned in these posts about "chisels".

[Mark AJ Allen]

Lots of positive aspects to the discussion for the Veritas brand with the maple handles but be aware, they have have VERY sharp lands; I've cut myself deep on them. This design element might influence your decision to buy them. Personally, I use the lands to guide and hold the chisels, and Narex are my users. Some people like those 'disappearing' lands for dovetail cleanup.

[Mike Henderson]

Lots of positive aspects to the discussion for the Veritas brand with the maple handles but be aware, they have have VERY sharp lands; I've cut myself deep on them. This design element might influence your decision to buy them. Personally, I use the lands to guide and hold the chisels, and Narex are my users. Some people like those 'disappearing' lands for dovetail cleanup.

If the arrises on the lands are too sharp, just stone them a small amount to knock down the sharp edge. Then you can hold them without fear of getting cut. And the amount you knock them down will not affect the use of the chisels.

Mike

[Patrick Chase]

If the arrises on the lands are too sharp, just stone them a small amount to knock down the sharp edge. Then you can hold them without fear of getting cut. And the amount you knock them down will not affect the use of the chisels.

Mike

This. It may feel wrong to take a stone to the edges of a $70 tool, but it's not useful as a chisel otherwise.

[Simon MacGowen]

If the arrises on the lands are too sharp, just stone them a small amount to knock down the sharp edge. Then you can hold them without fear of getting cut. And the amount you knock them down will not affect the use of the chisels.

Mike

I made a few passes on the arrises with a EZ-lap hone to rid of the sharp edges, leaving however the first 1" of edges untouched.

Simon