Clearvue Max closet question

[Chris Fairbanks]

I am building a closet in my 3 car garage / shop to finally installed the clearvue Max I bought a few years ago. I am thinking of building in a u shaped lined retuned baffle to allow the air to return to my garage and minimize the noise. My question is how long should the baffle area be and how big should it be? I am installing an 8" main trunk on the system and could be using two machines at any given time. The 8" SDR is about 50 square inches of space so I was thinking of going three times that, so 150 square inches. Not sure if that is enough or if that is an overkill. As for length of the baffle area I have no idea how big that should be. I have limited space so I was thinking of doing it horizontally at the top of the closet so it would be about 4' long. No idea if that is way to short or if it's enough. Any ideas or pointers are greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[John K Jordan]

Chris,

If you haven't checked, I remember discussing on the ClearVue forum about return baffles. It sounds to me the cross-sectional area you plan is more than sufficient. The DC should force air through the return at the same CFM but at a lower speed with a bigger area - you could do the calculations. I suspect a 2x or 3x area will not cause significant pressure buildup in the closet or reduce efficiency of the DC. Mine is about 2x and I see low air flow and no significant pressure when I open the access doors. A call to ClearVue might provide a guidelines or there may be something in the Pentz writings, I can't remember.

I put mine in a closet and made a return air duct that goes up and snakes a bit through the rafters before returning to the room through a grill in the ceiling. I put a standard HVAC filter on it just for fun but it shows no dust, as expected.

I don't think the length matters. The shape may reduce noise. I made several turns in mine with that in mind. I also sprayed rubber coating on the inside. My closet has 6" walls and I made it using the staggered stud technique for reduced sound transmission. I have insulated double steel doors for access but they open into a bay area and not the shop so there is no sound transmitted through the doors. I also have a 5hp air compressor in the same room. When either of these is running there is very little sound transmitted to the shop. I hear almost nothing coming through the return duct.

This is the sketch I made when planning the return duct. It fits up in the trusses so part is angled because of the roof slope. I made this from 1/2" plywood.

Dust_collector_baffle.jpg

JKJ

[Brian Hood]

Wondering what are you planning on lining the duct with to absorb the sound?

[Chris Fairbanks]

John, I called CV based on your post and they said they do a similar setup like yours. They said one of their cyclones is in a closet in the shop but they just use 8" SDR with a few bends in it to exhaust out of the closet. They did say it creates a decent amount of back pressure in the closet but has not caused any performance issues with the CV. I don't want to take a chance so I am going to try and stay around the 3x ratio myself.

Brian, My entire closet is being built out with dual layers of 5/8" Sheetrock joined together with Green Glue to additional sound deadening. While I do not have the dust collector up and running yet its just amazing the sound difference of just knocking with your hand on the 5/8" Sheetrock in my garage walls vs the dual Sheetrock with green glue between it. The garage you can hear all the details of the knocking or tapping vs the green glue sheetrock is just a light thud. As for the baffle I am thinking of building it out with two layers 5/8" sheetrock with green glue to start and then from there add a layer open face layer of roxul "safe and sound" like I used in the stud bays of the closet or the 1/2" sound board home depot sells. I would prefer the sound board as it would allow me more airflow through the baffle as its only 1/2" thick vs the 3"+ thick of the safe and sound. I dont expect the sound board to work as well but it might be good enough. The only last option I am thinking of adding is a sound proofing louver. http://www.tmsoundproofing.com/Free-...ge-Design.html I am thinking of building the baffle so I could add this at a later date if I need additional sound proofing as it is not cheap.

The only reason I am going through this much effort to kill the sound is I live in a suburban neighborhood outside of San Francisco and I don't want to cause any drama with my neighbors. In addition I have two young children who love spending time in the shop and while I make sure they always wear hearing protect (as do I) I still not want a 95db+ machine screaming all the time. Finally I am looking to build out a CNC later this year so it means the DC is going to be running a lot and I just don't need the noise all the time.

Thanks!!


sound board http://www.homedepot.com/p/BlueLinx-...7008/202090237
roxul http://www.homedepot.com/p/Roxul-Saf...1525/202531875

[John K Jordan]

I still not want a 95db+ machine screaming all the time.

I hear ya. :-) I did check mine with a sound meter and while I don't remember the numbers, seems like it was somewhere between 60-70 in the shop. I can carry on normal conversation when it is running. There is actually more noise from the air moving into the machine pickups than there is through the closet that houses the freight train. Any machine I run is far louder than the ClearVue - I have accidentally left it on a couple of times. (I have the 5hp CV1800) I can detect no noise through the return duct when standing under the grill. The big air compressor is very quiet too.

BTW, I posted this earlier somewhere but you may be interested: I rewired things to put all the controls for the DC and the air compressor in the main shop, including the remote electronics, cutoff switches, and bin sensor controls and alarm, as well as the compressor cutoff, valving, filters and regulator. I didn't want to have to go into the closet to check pressures, cut power, etc.

For the DC I put everything in one box (except for the contactor/relay) so I wouldn't have a jumble of wires. I use a pilot light switch to enable the system. My closet is tucked out of the way so having this box in the main shop in sight from anywhere in the room is nice.

electrical_shop_s.jpg electrical_DC_controller_box_ces.jpg electrical_closet_s.jpg

In the last picture the DC relay box and main DC electrical disconnect switch is the stuff in the center.

The air compressor stuff in the hallway in the main shop outside the closet:

air_comp_ctrls_IMG_20150124.jpg

The valves to the right are cutoffs for a bunch of air outlets plumbed through the shop and outside.

JKJ

[Chris Fairbanks]

John thanks for the pictures. I had thought about putting all of the electronics outside the closet like you but forgot about it. Thanks for the reminder! Do you have any pressure gauges on the dust collector? I ended up buying two different Dwyer gauges that I plan on adding. One will show the back pressure on the filters so I know when they need to be cleaned and the other will be tied to a pitot tube so i can calculate the CFM of any given tool so I'll know if it is getting enough air flow. I'll start a new thread in a few weeks when I get the system up and running to document everything.

I am also going to move my IR 80g 7.5hp compressor out to a small shed I bought on the far side of my house. I have 1" copper run underground around my front yard for it. I ran that when we redid the lawn a number of years ago. Between getting the compressor out of the shop and building this dust collector closet where my old tank water heater was ( went to an outdoor tankless heater last year ) I gained a bunch of space. Now I just need to figure out how to squeeze a full size (5'x10' footprint) CNC in there and I'll be set.

[Frank Pratt]

Chris, I did an installation similar to yours, but my collector is an Oneida V-5000. The closet is actually in my basement next to the garage. Walls are 6" with staggered studs & 2 layers of 3" Roxul Safe 'n Sound. Each side is 2 layers of 5/8" drywall & Green Glue (amazing stuff). The entrance to the closet is sealed off with 2 back to back exterior steel doors. Each door has a layer of 3/4" MDF laminated to it with Green Glue between & an extra set of weather stripping. Standing 3' away from the doors, you cannot hear the collector at all. With my ear 6" from the door I can just hear it.

The return air duct to the shop is about 10' long with a dog leg in it. It's lined with 1" duct liner insulation & is about 3x the cross sectional area of the 8" inlet duct. With the collector running in the shop, the sound of the air rushing in the inlets at the machinery pretty much drowns out the sound from the return air duct. Any machine running completely covers the sound of the collector.

When I shut of the machine I'm working at & take my hearing protection off, I have no problem leaving the collector running. It just is not very loud at all.

Like John (very nice setup) I have all the controls located in the shop; collector control c/w ammeter display, bin sensor, filter sensor, & also a fire alarm system with heat detectors in the bin and the collector closet. In the event of fire, the system shuts down & sounds a horn/strobe.

I'm sure you'll be happy with what your doing with your system.

[John K Jordan]

Do you have any pressure gauges on the dust collector?

No. Unfortunately, that was something I planned but never did. :-(
With a crew of one (me) to build the shop from clearing the ground to the video cameras there always seems to be something else I remember I forgot to remember to do.

JKJ

[marty shultz]

I made a room similar to yours for my clearview. The Inlet is 7" and exhaust is 8" diameter hvac duct. Plus I have a 4" return on the floor. The room is slightly pressurized so i need to add another return. There are some pics at the bottom of this link. I think I went from roughly 93db to 64db if I recall correctly.

Chris, I did an installation similar to yours, but my collector is an Oneida V-5000. The closet is actually in my basement next to the garage. Walls are 6" with staggered studs & 2 layers of 3" Roxul Safe 'n Sound. Each side is 2 layers of 5/8" drywall & Green Glue (amazing stuff). The entrance to the closet is sealed off with 2 back to back exterior steel doors. Each door has a layer of 3/4" MDF laminated to it with Green Glue between & an extra set of weather stripping. Standing 3' away from the doors, you cannot hear the collector at all. With my ear 6" from the door I can just hear it.

The return air duct to the shop is about 10' long with a dog leg in it. It's lined with 1" duct liner insulation & is about 3x the cross sectional area of the 8" inlet duct. With the collector running in the shop, the sound of the air rushing in the inlets at the machinery pretty much drowns out the sound from the return air duct. Any machine running completely covers the sound of the collector.

When I shut of the machine I'm working at & take my hearing protection off, I have no problem leaving the collector running. It just is not very loud at all.

Like John (very nice setup) I have all the controls located in the shop; collector control c/w ammeter display, bin sensor, filter sensor, & also a fire alarm system with heat detectors in the bin and the collector closet. In the event of fire, the system shuts down & sounds a horn/strobe.

I'm sure you'll be happy with what your doing with your system.

[mreza Salav]

I have made a 10' closet for my CV, inside I have used green (Safe'n sound) insulation lined with old bedding. The exhaust is via the top going around the motor, the opening is about 16"x30".
I think you'll certainly have a much lower noise level with your system but I am wondering if it is really your loudest machine? for me the DC running is not comparable to when the jointer/planer/router table, or Shaper are cutting. I'm in a big city too with neighbors all around though I haven't heard any complains yet (one next to us is a particularly nasty person).

s14.jpgs13.jpgs16.jpg

[Chris Fairbanks]

meraki, I am sure it's not the noisiest but my old canister setup with no sound proofing just wore on me. I have not heard a clearvue in person but everyone said they were LOUD so I figured lets go for overkill . I have one neighbor who is not fond of me so I don't need anything else to have a talk with them about. Also I plan on building a CNC with a spindle in the near future and figured if that was running for hours doing any 3D work I may as well just do the dust collector setup right the first time and be over with it.

eveyone else thanks for the info. I have been traveling for work and have not had much time to work on the shop. Hopefully I'll get some time this weekend or next weekend to make some progress. I'll post some pictures when I start back up on it. Thanks!

[Chris Fairbanks]

Life has been a little busy. Finally got some time this weekend to hang the Clearvue. I built a wood frame to mount it on so it would stand up from the floor but I did not have enough clearance in order to get to the motor to level it or tighten the clamps to hold the fan housing. At this point I just mounted it on the wall with the clearvue aluminum bracket. I added some 1/2" thick foam under the motor mount so hopefully that dampens any vibrations that would transfer into the house. I need to pull it down one more time and make sure all of the seams are caulked well. Next weekend I am hoping to start working on the plumbing. I plan to run 8" S&D for the main trunk and then drop down to 6" for the tools. My original thought was to run straight pipe from the cyclone until it gets to the ceiling and then use a 22.5 degree fitting to run flat along the ceiling. The problem is that will cut into my height in the garage since the cycle is in the middle of the back wall. I read somewhere that for optimal separation performance you need a straight shot of atlear 6' into the cyclone. Is that true? I was thinking my other option would be to put the 22.5 degree fitting right at the intake and then run to the ceiling quicker and then connect into a 45 degree fitting to run flat across the ceiling. What's your guys thoughts? Thanks!

[John K Jordan]

Is this the 5 hp motor? (That's what I use) i know the recommendation for optimal performance is a straight section at the inlet. But I didn't have room to do it "right" so leading into the inlet I have a short piece of flex connecting a straight pipe angling upward slightly. I then use several 22.5 deg connectors to make as gentle a curve as possible and still get the duct up through my ceiling in the space I have. (My ducts to the drops are all above the ceiling in the trusses.)

Although this may not be optimal according to the book, I find the suction and flow certainly strong enough to handle anything I do in my shop. And the separation within the 5 hp cyclone is amazing. Perhaps the 3 hp cyclones some people install might suffer more from some inefficiency at the input.

JKJ

[Chris Fairbanks]

John, yes it's the 5hp CVMax cyclone. Thanks for the info. I am going to see how bad it would be if I ran it straight vs the 45 to the ceiling. Thanks

[Marty Schlosser]

Mo,
I can't see it from the pictures, but how do you address the heat issue inside the closet? My cyclone's Baldor motor gives off one heck of lot of heat and I'd be concerned about fully closing it in without providing for some sort of exhaust within the closet ... but I want to tackle the high sound issue.

I have made a 10' closet for my CV, inside I have used green (Safe'n sound) insulation lined with old bedding. The exhaust is via the top going around the motor, the opening is about 16"x30".
I think you'll certainly have a much lower noise level with your system but I am wondering if it is really your loudest machine? for me the DC running is not comparable to when the jointer/planer/router table, or Shaper are cutting. I'm in a big city too with neighbors all around though I haven't heard any complains yet (one next to us is a particularly nasty person).